[Elvendark]

Hi,
I just would like to know, which AGP graphics card I should use to play FSO / BF2 / CS:S / FEAR etc in max. details.
My system is a bit outdated and by now I don't want to buy me a complete new one based on Dual Core and PCI-E.
Maybe someone can give me some hints what would fit in, what's overpowered and so on.

My system atm:
MSI K7N2 Delta 2 Platinum (AGP!)
350W noname with only 1 +12V line
2x 1GB Kingston HyperX (PC3200)
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (400FSB), 2,3GHz
Sapphire ATI 9600XT 256 bit, 256MB, 500MHz GPU, 300/600MHz RAM Freq. AGP !
LG H42N DVD Burner
Western Digital 75/80GB HDD
Seagate 20GB HDD
12cm Case Fan, pointing right above the AGP slot
1 noname Floppy
Windows XP, SP2

I am looking for the latest, best graphics card with 256bit, about 500/1200MHz GPU & RAM Timings, at least 12 Pipes, and 512 MB if this is an advantage.
It is the last upgrade before I will buy a new PCI-E system or a laptop. I have read a lot of stuff in forums that meanwhile left me a bit confused.
Buying a new power supply is the last option, it's not worth it, I guess.
150€ should be the max budget for the card...
Produced noise doesn't matter, because my PC already is way too loud...

The cards I prefer are:
ATI x850XT, ~70€:        256MB, 16 Pipes, 16 Pixelshader, 6 Vertex, 520 / 1080 MHz
ATI x1950GT, ~100€:        256MB, 12 Pipes, 36 Pixel, 8 Vertex, 500 / 1.200 MHz
ATI x1950GT, ~130€:        512MB, 12 Pipes, 36 Pixel, 8 Vertex, 500 / 1.200 MHz
ATI HIS x1950Pro IceQ3 R2, 150€: 512MB, 12 Pipes, 36 Pixel, 8 Vertex, 590 / 1540 MHz
ATI HIS x1950Pro IceQ3 R2, 150€: 256MB, 12 Pipes, 36 Pixel, 8 Vertex, 620 / 1480 MHz
ATI GeCube x1950XT, 170€:     256MB, 16 Pipes, 48 Pixel, 8 Vertex, 620 / 1400 MHz

GeForce Gainward BLISS 7800GS+ (@7900GT,G71 chip): 512MB, 24 Pipes, 8 Vertex, 450 / 1250 MHz
GeForce 7800GS
GeForce 7800GT

I face these problems and have to coordinate them:
- the price, maybe 850XT for 70€ is enough?
- the voltage (some cards need 2x 4pole PINs with separate 12V lines and >450W), and how much Amper do they need combined if they run only on 2 12V lines etc.?
- the CPU: maybe a x1950pro or a xt are to fast => bottleneck effect of the CPU... that system isn't worth too high-end cards....
- the cooling: system 24°, CPU 50° running @ 5-15% of max workload.
- the cooperation between all the components: timings of CPU, system mem, GPU & graphics memory, hight of system & graphics memory


Does anyone has experience with these cards and a similar system or enough knowledge to give an advice referring to all the information above, which I should choose?
Thanks in advance for any hint. Bye, greez

[Thor]

I'm in a similar situation, with a 3ghz P4 and an Radeon 9600Xt.  and honestly, every time i look at the AGP cards, i can't justify the price of them compared to the age of my rig (going on 3-4 years now).  You're probably better off holding off and saving up your money for a new rig with a more modern video card (read: DX10).  buying anything that doesn't support DX10 is just throwing good money away on something thats not going to last you very long.

[colecampbell666]

Yup. Save up for a few months and spend an extra couple hundred to get a better mobo/processor/video card.

[jr2]

My system atm:
MSI K7N2 Delta 2 Platinum (AGP!)
350W noname with only 1 +12V line
2x 1GB Kingston HyperX (PC3200)
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (400FSB), 2,3GHz
Sapphire ATI 9600XT 256 bit, 256MB, 500MHz GPU, 300/600MHz RAM Freq. AGP !
LG H42N DVD Burner
Western Digital 75/80GB HDD
Seagate 20GB HDD
12cm Case Fan, pointing right above the AGP slot
1 noname Floppy
Windows XP, SP2

WOOOT!! You have the exact same mobo as me!!  Your processor speed = 2.2 GHz, there, bud... or did you overclock it?    If so, what settings are you using?    I have the exact same processor, too.  Oh, and the RAM.. yeah, 2x 1GB sticks.    BTW, make sure your RAM is in separate channels or the dual channel doesn't work IIRC.  I can check on the specifics if you want.

But, yeah, that mobo is way out of date now.    I was going to get a new GFX card, too, but it's not worth it, like they said (I currently have a BFG nVidia 6200 LE OC 256 MB.)  Check out the price of buying a Socket AM2 + Dual-core 64-bit AMD + fan & thermal grease + 2x 1 GB RAM... comes to around $370 or somesuch... you just need a GFX card to top it off.

[Elvendark]

jeah, thought so to wait a few month, guess 6-10, until the DX10 cards will be affordable...
CPU, cooling, HDD are atm the cheapest stuff. but mem sticks (1gig each @ ~ 1gig FSB), power supply (>500W with >=2 lines 12V), GFX with good stats and MoBo for future changes are scaring me off. ergo: I will wait a bit to get a totaly new system...

Guess the 850XT for about 50-70€ will do well the next half to one year. I cant stand this goddamn 9600XT anymore....could play Tetris on my mobile phone instead, same performance  

yes, cool MB the K7N2....those days.....far away..... 

and jeah, I slightly OCed the CPU. Just the BIOS settings to 3-5%, dynamic OC @ "sergeant" or something like that 
I am too anxious to exaggerate those things. FSB is on 202 (dunno why, didn' touched that setting....) I can have a look at them if you like. But.... what's the thing with the dual channel?

To use it, do I have to put one stick on channel A (purple lanes) and one on B (single green) or both on purple (A)? Depending on your words the first solution....  

And before I forget that  (headbang...) : Thanks for the support 

[CP5670]

jeah, thought so to wait a few month, guess 6-10, until the DX10 cards will be affordable...

There are three new cards coming in the next two weeks (on PCIE) that seem to be very good deals. As others have said, you're better off upgrading everything at once than buying the heavily overpriced AGP cards at this stage. You can actually get a pretty decent motherboard, CPU and memory for around $200 right now.

To use it, do I have to put one stick on channel A (purple lanes) and one on B (single green) or both on purple (A)? Depending on your words the first solution....

It's typically both on the same color, which would be purple.

[Davros]

i disagree with those saying it not worth upgrading the vid card on a p4 3ghz
a p4 3ghz exceeds the recomended spec of almost every game out there...

[Nuke]

isnt using new and agp in the same sentence an oxymoron

[Roanoke]

I'm in a similar position and decided I couldn't be bothered spending more than about £80, which would probably mean a 7600gt in AGP form. Could probably get a new rig for around £400 but as I'm after a car I probably won't bother with a new PC for a while.

[jr2]

To use it, do I have to put one stick on channel A (purple lanes) and one on B (single green) or both on purple (A)? Depending on your words the first solution....  

And before I forget that  : Thanks for the support 

It's typically both on the same color, which would be purple.

...except in this case.  With this mobo, you have to use one stick in the purple, one in the green.  Yeah, I was operating in single-channel mode for about two years before I figured this out. 

[Nuke]

thats why it pays to rtfm.

as it generally goes its usually cheaper to buy a new machine than to get a particular video card. a fast video card wont do you much good if there are plenty of bottlenecks to slow it down.

[Bobboau]

what would be the best mobo/cpu/graphics card setup for a budget of about $700 (willing to go a little higher)? I'm thinking of something nforce based for the mobo, and I want an Nvidia card this time cause ATI has been seriously pissing me off with there drivers for a while now. though I'm still willing to entertain AMD over Intel, I hear Intel has been makeing the better chips lately.

[Elvendark]

As far as I am concerned, the speed differences between ATI and nvidia / AMD and Intel aren't worth the big price differences, imho. 
nvidia prices are waaay to high at cards with similar stats, don't know why....this let me choose ATI ever since.
Same with the quality: I never had reason to complain anything with ATI and AMD.

What bothers me now is the technology. I read something about that forthcoming games/programs/applications will  be based much more upon Intel and nvidia technology than AMD/ATI. Can't remember exactly what they ment....

[Bobboau]

yeah and as I said I'm pissed at ATI because as nice as there stats are there friken useless unless they have drivers that support there hardware. its sort of like having a sports car and living 700 miles from the nearest paved road. so nvidia here we come. and none of that answered my question.

[CP5670]

what would be the best mobo/cpu/graphics card setup for a budget of about $700 (willing to go a little higher)? I'm thinking of something nforce based for the mobo, and I want an Nvidia card this time cause ATI has been seriously pissing me off with there drivers for a while now. though I'm still willing to entertain AMD over Intel, I hear Intel has been makeing the better chips lately.

I think the best combination at that price is E4400/IP35-E/2GB 800 Ballistix, which leaves about $450 for a video card and PSU (if you already have a good PSU, get a E6750 instead). Wait a bit on the video cards though. The 8800GT is going to be launched in a few hours actually, and the updated GTS and 3870XT (or whatever they're calling it now) should be out in another two or three weeks.

As for the drivers, I have seen roughly an equal number of complaints from both camps. Both the 8800 and 2900 drivers seem to be greatly inferior to the 7 and X1 series drivers in general.

[jr2]

what would be the best mobo/cpu/graphics card setup for a budget of about $700 (willing to go a little higher)? I'm thinking of something nforce based for the mobo, and I want an Nvidia card this time cause ATI has been seriously pissing me off with there drivers for a while now. though I'm still willing to entertain AMD over Intel, I hear Intel has been makeing the better chips lately.

Sent you an e-mail via newegg... if you want, you can copy it here to get advise, I'm sure there's other inputs that ppl here might give you on my suggestions or w/e ...

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[colecampbell666]

3870XT (or whatever they're calling it now)

Is the 3870 the 2950 Pro? That's what it sounds like on the NCIX forums.

[CP5670]

They renamed it to the 3870. Yeah, it makes no sense to me either. At least it's better than what Nvidia is doing with the 8800GTS next month, silently releasing a new card under the exact same name.

[colecampbell666]

How does the *new* 8800GTS rank against the standard GTS and GTX? Is the GTX the same as the Ultra?

And while I'm at it, what's the difference between a workstation and gaming card?

[CP5670]

At this point, nobody really knows. NCIX put up a new EVGA one yesterday and BFG has one on their site, but BFG's specs and NCIX's price suggest that it's slower than a GT and a complete ripoff, so that may not actually be the new card at all.

As for the workstation cards, the drivers have some differences and support a few extra features like line AA, and the compatibility certificates for many standard 3D programs drive up the cost a lot. The cards are physically almost identical, typically having more but slower memory than the gamer versions.