[Kosh]

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamo-fascism-awareness-week/

[Flipside]

It's like the Princess Diana thing in the UK, it just will not go away...

[jr2]

[Mefustae]

*Snip*

At least it's more humane than the electric chair.

Honestly, do these people even know what 'Islamo-fascism' means!?

[jr2]

*Snip*

At least it's more humane than the electric chair.

Honestly, do these people even know what 'Islamo-fascism' means!?

I assume it means Islamic people who believe that they are the best religion out there and have a right to take over the world... let me check.

EDIT:

1) Mefustae, please do something for me: Knowing that I don't consider execution by a gunshot to the head to be inhumane or inappropriate in certain circumstances, can you guess why I find that picture disturbing?  I know you can do it.

2)

    This article is about the term "Islamofascism"; See the broader treatment of possible relations between religion and fascism in Clerical fascism and Neofascism and religion.

Islamofascism is a controversial neologism suggesting an association of the ideological or operational characteristics of certain modern Islamist movements with European fascist movements of the early 20th century, neofascist movements, or totalitarianism.

The word is included in the New Oxford American Dictionary, defining it as "a controversial term equating some modern Islamic movements with the European fascist movements of the early twentieth century". Critics of the term argue that associating the religion of Islam with fascism is offensive and inaccurate.

Origins and usage

Although Islamofascism is usually a reference to Islamism rather than Islam in general, comparisons have been made between fascism and Islam, as far back as 1937, when the German Catholic emigré Edgar Alexander compared Nazism with "Mohammedanism", and again, in 1939, when psychologist Carl Jung said about Adolf Hitler, "he is like Mohammed. The emotion in Germany is Islamic, warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with a wild god."[1]

According to Roger Scruton of the Wall Street Journal, the term was introduced by the French historian Maxime Rodinson to describe the Iranian Revolution of 1978. Scruton claims that Rodinson "was a Marxist, who described as 'fascist' any movement of which he disapproved", but credits him with inventing a "convenient way of announcing that you are not against Islam but only against its perversion by the terrorists."[2]

In 1990 Malise Ruthven wrote, in The Independent:

    "Nevertheless there is what might be called a political problem affecting the Muslim world. In contrast to the heirs of some other non-Western traditions, including Hinduism, Shintoism and Buddhism, Islamic societies seem to have found it particularly hard to institutionalise divergences politically: authoritarian government, not to say Islamo-fascism, is the rule rather than the exception from Morocco to Pakistan." [3]

Albert Scardino of the The Guardian attributes the term to an article by Muslim scholar Khalid Duran in the Washington Times, where he used it to describe the push by some Islamist clerics to "impose religious orthodoxy on the state and the citizenry".[4]

The related term, Islamic fascism, was adopted by journalists including Stephen Schwartz[5] and Christopher Hitchens,[6] who intended it to refer to Islamist extremists, including terrorist groups such as al Qaeda, although he more often tends to use the phrases "theocratic fascism" or "fascism with an Islamic face" (a play on Susan Sontag's phrase "fascism with a human face", referring to the declaration of martial law in Poland in 1981). [7]

Some commentators including Paul Berman, an American author and professor of journalism at New York University, and Christopher Hitchens, believe there are similarities between historical fascism and Islamofacism:[8][page # needed]

    * rage against historical humiliation; [9]
    * inspiration from what is believed to be an earlier golden age (one or more of the first few Caliphates in the case of Islamism)[10][11];
    * a desire to restore the perceived glory of this age -- or "a fanatical determination to get on top of history after being underfoot for so many generations"[12] -- with an all-encompassing (totalitarian) social, political, economic system;[13]
    * belief that malicious, predatory alien forces (Jews in the case of Nazi Fascists or Islamofascists) are conspiring against and within the nation/community, and that violence is necessary to defeat and expel these forces; [11]
    * exaltation of death and destruction along with a contempt for "art and literature as symptoms of degeneracy and decadence", and strong commitment to sexual repression and subordination of women.[11]
    * offensive military, (or armed) campaign to reestablish the power and rightful international domination of the nation/community.[14][15]

[Mefustae]

On closer inspection, the stuff on there isn't that crazy or racist. In fact, he actually has a few good points splattered around. Unfortunately, the rabid anti-left sentiments that essentially form the backbone of the entire site undermine practically everything they've attempted to say.

[jr2]

See EDIT: above

[Mefustae]

1) Mefustae, please do something for me: Knowing that I don't consider execution by a gunshot to the head to be inhumane or inappropriate in certain circumstances, can you guess why I find that picture disturbing?  I know you can do it.

Thanks for the clarification, but I honestly don't know what else is wrong with that picture? The fact that they're wearing robes? That it's such an open spot? Factoring in the cultural differences, I don't really see how it can be indicative of big, bad islamofascism.

[Kosh]

1) Mefustae, please do something for me: Knowing that I don't consider execution by a gunshot to the head to be inhumane or inappropriate in certain circumstances, can you guess why I find that picture disturbing?  I know you can do it.

Thanks for the clarification, but I honestly don't know what else is wrong with that picture? The fact that they're wearing robes? That it's such an open spot? Factoring in the cultural differences, I don't really see how it can be indicative of big, bad islamofascism.

Not our fault their society couldn't evolve past the seventh century.

[jr2]

Ah, Mefustae... now, as you can see, the method of execution makes no difference to me... hmm:

Execution of a teenage girl
A television documentary team has pieced together details surrounding the case of a 16-year-old girl, executed two years ago in Iran.


Newspaper article in Farsi about Atefah's execution
Atefah Sahaaleh: wrongly described as being 22 years old

On 15 August, 2004, Atefah Sahaaleh was hanged in a public square in the Iranian city of Neka.

Her death sentence was imposed for "crimes against chastity".

The state-run newspaper accused her of adultery and described her as 22 years old.

But she was not married - and she was just 16.

Sharia Law

In terms of the number of people executed by the state in 2004, Iran is estimated to be second only to China.

In the year of Atefah's death, at least 159 people were executed in accordance with the Islamic law of the country, based on the Sharia code.

Since the revolution, Sharia law has been Iran's highest legal authority.

Alongside murder and drug smuggling, sex outside marriage is also a capital crime.

As a signatory of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran has promised not to execute anyone under the age of 18.

But the clerical courts do not answer to parliament. They abide by their religious supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, making it virtually impossible for human rights campaigners to call them to account.

Code of behaviour

At the time of Atefah's execution in Neka, journalist Asieh Amini heard rumours the girl was just 16 years old and so began to ask questions.


Crane for hanging in silhouette
To teach others a lesson, Atefah's execution was held in public

"When I met with the family," says Asieh, "they showed me a copy of her birth certificate, and a copy of her death certificate. Both of them show she was born in 1988. This gave me legitimate grounds to investigate the case."

So why was such a young girl executed? And how could she have been accused of adultery when she was not even married?

Disturbed by the death of her mother when she was only four or five years old, and her distraught father's subsequent drug addiction, Atefah had a difficult childhood.

She was also left to care for her elderly grandparents, but they are said to have shown her no affection.

In a town like Neka, heavily under the control of religious authorities, Atefah - often seen wandering around on her own - was conspicuous.

It was just a matter of time before she came to the attention of the "moral police", a branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, whose job it is to enforce the Islamic code of behaviour on Iran's streets.

Secret relationship

Being stopped or arrested by the moral police is a fact of life for many Iranian teenagers.

Previously arrested for attending a party and being alone in a car with a boy, Atefah received her first sentence for "crimes against chastity" when she was just 13.

Although the exact nature of the crime is unknown, she spent a short time in prison and received 100 lashes.

When she returned to her home town, she told those close to her that lashes were not the only things she had to endure in prison. She described abuse by the moral police guards.

Soon after her release, Atefah became involved in an abusive relationship with a man three times her age.

Former revolutionary guard, 51-year-old Ali Darabi - a married man with children - raped her several times.

She kept the relationship a secret from both her family and the authorities.

Atefah was soon caught in a downward spiral of arrest and abuse.

Local petition

Circumstances surrounding Atefah's fourth and final arrest were unusual.

The moral police said the locals had submitted a petition, describing her as a "source of immorality" and a "terrible influence on local schoolgirls".

But there were no signatures on the petition - only those of the arresting guards.

Three days after her arrest, Atefah was in a court and tried under Sharia law.

The judge was the powerful Haji Rezai, head of the judiciary in Neka.

No court transcript is available from Atefah's trial, but it is known that for the first time, Atefah confessed to the secret of her sexual abuse by Ali Darabi.

However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law - within the confines of marriage - is nine, and furthermore, rape is very hard to prove in an Iranian court.

"Men's word is accepted much more clearly and much more easily than women," according to Iranian lawyer and exile Mohammad Hoshi.

"They can say: 'You know she encouraged me' or 'She didn't wear proper dress'."

Court of appeal

   

She was my love, my heart... I did everything for her, everything I could
Atefah's father

When Atefah realised her case was hopeless, she shouted back at the judge and threw off her veil in protest.

It was a fatal outburst.

She was sentenced to execution by hanging, while Darabi got just 95 lashes.

Shortly before the execution, but unbeknown to her family, documents that went to the Supreme Court of Appeal described Atefah as 22.

"Neither the judge nor even Atefah's court appointed lawyer did anything to find out her true age," says her father.

And a witness claims: "The judge just looked at her body, because of the developed physique... and declared her as 22."

Judge Haji Rezai took Atefah's documents to the Supreme Court himself.

And at six o'clock on the morning of her execution he put the noose around her neck, before she was hoisted on a crane to her death.

Pain and death

During the making of the documentary about Atefah's death the production team telephoned Judge Haji Rezai to ask him about the case, but he refused to comment.

The human rights organisation Amnesty International says it is concerned that executions are becoming more common again under President Mahmoud Ahmedinajad, who advocates a return to the pure values of the revolution.

The judiciary have never admitted there was any mishandling of Atefah's case.

For Atefah's father the pain of her death remains raw. "She was my love, my heart... I did everything for her, everything I could," he says.

He did not get the chance to say goodbye.

[vyper]

So, interestingly this is also alcohol awareness week. I bet that pisses them right off.

"Not only do you insult Allah, you get bevvied at the same time!"



I jest, this is serious though.

[Flipside]

The problem for me is the whole Islamo- thing, executions have been taking place for a while, even on US military bases, as in the case of Ciara Durkin, killed on an American Base in a 'non-combat incident' involving a gunshot wound to the head. She was gay.

It's easy to paint a picture of 'Islamofacism' if you pretend that only Islam does it, but Islam is far from the only culture that, at its extremes, engages or supports this kind of thing. No, it's not right, but it's not Islam either.

Maybe calling it 'Fighting back against Intolerance Week' might have been a better name, this rings too much of 'hate the towel-heads week'.

[karajorma]

It's worth pointing out that only four countries use the death sentence for under 18s and the USA is one of them.

Further more only 4 countries have signed but not yet ratified the treaty mentioned by jr2. And wouldn't you know it, USA is one of them too.


Yes the stuff in Iran is barbaric and inhumane but a phrase about glass houses and throwing stones comes to mind.

[Nuclear1]

And yet you forget Roper v. Simmons, which, in 2005 found execution of minors unconstitutional, therefore allowing the United States to fix its own problems without the absolutely flawless and wonderful UN intervening.

[Flipside]

No-one is claiming the UN is flawless, though I suspect it is a lot less corrupt than many are led to believe. It isn't perfect, it never pretended to be, do you consider the American system flawless? Of course not, so why is the fact that the UN isn't either such a huge matter for Americans? 'Our government sucks, but we think yours is worse' isn't really a good launch point for either side of the argument.

Also, are you saying that the US only stopped executing children 2 years ago, long after the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq on Human Rights abuses? I never knew that.

[Nuclear1]

No-one is claiming the UN is flawless, though I suspect it is a lot less corrupt than many are led to believe. It isn't perfect, it never pretended to be, do you consider the American system flawless? Of course not, so why is the fact that the UN isn't either such a huge matter for Americans? 'Our government sucks, but we think yours is worse' isn't really a good launch point for either side of the argument.

Also, are you saying that the US only stopped executing children 2 years ago, long after the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq on Human Rights abuses? I never knew that.

I never considered the American system flawless either, but I still prefer it to the UN.  Most Americans that hate the UN don't see the flaws in the US government as well.  I don't like the UN because I think that while the concept of a world government is a good idea in terms of ending war and generating better cooperation, the UN doesn't have the strength to be that world government.  It's far too decentralized and its nations retain too much sovereignty to truly be an effective government along the lines of the proposed European Constitution or the current US Federal government.

As for Iraq/Afghanistan, I think that ethnic genocide + subjugation of women + a lack of basic human freedoms were a little more obvious and black-and-white than capital punishment for murderers who just happen to be 17 at the time they commit their crimes.

[Flipside]

Indeed, but is that really to do with Islam, or is it more to do with abuse and ignorance? I'm all for the idea that this sort of thing should be stopped, but why put 'Islam' in the name, already it's directing everyones' attention to the Middle East and making out that it only happens there. It doesn't.

As for the UN, I'll agree they don't have the weight to live up to their grand plan, but they are better than what we had before, and there will probably be other iterations that work better in the future, no endeavour has ever really succeeded the first time, and frequently not the second time, as you say, there's too much self-interest from each member, but it's the best we've done so far.

[karajorma]

And yet you forget Roper v. Simmons, which, in 2005 found execution of minors unconstitutional, therefore allowing the United States to fix its own problems without the absolutely flawless and wonderful UN intervening.

Actually I was unaware that the USA had actually stopped doing it (I remember vaguely hearing something about it).

However doesn't it seem a little hypocritical to be condemning Muslim countries for execution of minors is when the USA only ended that practice 2 years ago? And if as you claim countries should be fixing their barbaric execution practices themselves *cough*Electric chair*cough*then isn't it also hypocritical to single out Muslim countries and say that they should be following UN rules?

[Unknown Target]

I love how everytime a debate like this is brought up, rather than examining the facts that Iran and other Islamo-whatever countries practice these acts, somehow the US shouldn't say that's bad because we do "the exact same thing". Let me know the last time where we publicly hanged a girl for "crimes against chastity" or whatever, under the protection of the US law.

The problem for me is the whole Islamo- thing, executions have been taking place for a while, even on US military bases, as in the case of Ciara Durkin, killed on an American Base in a 'non-combat incident' involving a gunshot wound to the head. She was gay.

Yea, and I'm sure that was mandated by US law that she should be shot. Except it's not. But in Iran, I'm pretty sure something similar is, I remember hearing something just recently about it. Iran doesn't have any gays according to it's leader, remember?


People, stop comparing the U.S.'s laws to countries like Iran. Sure, we have the death penalty, but we are not enough alike to warrant a comparison.


Oh, and why is the US the only country who has a finger waved at them for the death penalty? There's always these folks:

    *  Afghanistan
    * Antigua and Barbuda
    * Bahamas
    * Bahrain
    * Bangladesh
    * Barbados
    * Belarus
    * Belize
    * Botswana
    * Burundi
    * Cameroon
    * Chad
    * China (People's Republic)
    * Comoros
    * Congo (Democratic Republic)
    * Cuba
    * Dominica
    * Egypt
    * Equatorial Guinea
    * Eritrea
    * Ethiopia
    * Gabon
    * Ghana
    * Guatemala
    * Guinea
    * Guyana
    * India
    * Indonesia
    * Iran
    * Iraq
    * Jamaica
    * Japan
    * Jordan
    * Kazakhstan
    * Korea, North
    * Korea, South
    * Kuwait

   

    * Kyrgyzstan
    * Laos
    * Lebanon
    * Lesotho
    * Libya
    * Malawi
    * Malaysia
    * Mongolia
    * Nigeria
    * Oman
    * Pakistan
    * Palestinian Authority
    * Qatar
    * Rwanda
    * St. Kitts and Nevis
    * St. Lucia
    * St. Vincent and the Grenadines
    * Saudi Arabia
    * Sierra Leone
    * Singapore
    * Somalia
    * Sudan
    * Swaziland
    * Syria
    * Taiwan
    * Tajikistan
    * Tanzania
    * Thailand
    * Trinidad and Tobago
    * Uganda
    * United Arab Emirates
    * United States
    * Uzbekistan
    * Vietnam
    * Yemen
    * Zambia
    * Zimbabwe

I do realize that the statement was specifically for under 18 year olds, but still. Take a chill people on the anti-US sentiments. Kara, it's not hypocritical because look how often the death penalty is invoked in the US for under 18 year olds - it's hardly ever used - according to the website linked to below, only about 22 minors have ever been executed since 1973, and only one of them was below 17 years old (he was 16). On top of that, 38 out of 50 US states outlaw it - only three states allow 16 and above, 9 allow 17 and above, and the rest are all the previously mentioned 18 and above. Statistics are here:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=203&scid=

Once again, just because the US says something is wrong doesn't mean that the US is wrong for saying it. Stop with the anti-US sentiments for the sake of having anti-US sentiments. Why don't we have a discussion on what this topic is actually about - this Islamo-facism thing and whether or not it really exists?

[Nuclear1]

And yet you forget Roper v. Simmons, which, in 2005 found execution of minors unconstitutional, therefore allowing the United States to fix its own problems without the absolutely flawless and wonderful UN intervening.

Actually I was unaware that the USA had actually stopped doing it (I remember vaguely hearing something about it).

However doesn't it seem a little hypocritical to be condemning Muslim countries for execution of minors is when the USA only ended that practice 2 years ago? And if as you claim countries should be fixing their barbaric execution practices themselves *cough*Electric chair*cough*then isn't it also hypocritical to single out Muslim countries and say that they should be following UN rules?

A grand total of seven states still hold the electric chair as an option (with the exception of Nebraska, where it is indeed the sole form of execution; even though it's only killed a grand total of 3 people in the last 30 years).  Any state that still uses capital punishment chiefly uses lethal injection. 

For all of the negative press that the US gets for capital punishment, nobody seems to notice that 67% of capital punishment convictions are either knocked down to a lesser sentence or acquitted altogether.  As for putting the US on the same level as Iran and other Muslim countries with regards to the death penalty, the comparison is only true to the extent that they all execute prisoners.  Muslim countries use far more inhumane methods of execution than the US, including hanging, disembowelment, and shooting in the back of the head.  In nearly 1,100 executions since 1976, the US has only hung or shot five and electrocuted 154.  The nearly 930 other executions have been by lethal injection.

And by the way, not a single one of those 1,097 executed were 16 year old girls for bull**** charges of adultery.  So really, criticize the US system all you want, as many do, but we've got much bigger problems in the world than convicted criminals being executed in humane manners in the US.

EDIT:  Everything UT said too.  Really, the execution of minors had been outlawed unofficially long before 2005 through evolution of community standards; nobody thinks it's right to execute someone younger than 18 for any crime, so it doesn't happen.  Roper only officially outlawed it.