[Mars]

I noticed this weapon referenced in the BB thread, so I looked it up. I can't seem to find any real data on it though.

Not to be apocalyptic, but hypothetically, if they were used against a USN carrier group, how effective would they be? I can't seem to find any real data / tests, just pointless babble. Would RAM / CWIS be able to take them out, or would they pass under the radar and hit their targets? (in general)

[IceFire]

Whats a Sunburn missile?  Its not one that I know about.

I imagine that a CWIS could take out any sort of missile provided it has the opportunity to lock on and fire.

[Shade]

That would depend on the CIWS. Most modern anti-ship missiles are armoured to a point where a gun such as the Vulcan used in the Phalanx system has more than a little trouble denting them, but the more recent missile based systems (like the ones based on the RAM Mars mentioned) would fare better. They're also often programmed to fly erratically when getting close to the target, letting them avoid much defensive gunfire - Again, though, that's less of a problem for a missile based system, since they can track it in flight.

Still, even the best CIWS in the world will not have a perfect record against something like the Sunburn. It's too fast, too armoured, and, if other Russian missiles are any indication, probably too smart for certainty in interception.

[redsniper]

I got my hopes up thinking this would be about some missile that gives off a lot of UV light when it explodes, so you could shoot it over enemy infantry and give them all sunburns. My dreams of Looney Toons-esque weaponry are shattered.

[Mefustae]

Not to be apocalyptic, but hypothetically, if they were used against a USN carrier group, how effective would they be?

It would depend entirely on the situation. The amount of missiles, the direction, the composition of the fleet, the tactics used when firing, and then you've got to think about variables like how the Carrier uses its airwing. Of course, that's ignoring the most important factor of all: Luck.

[Bobboau]

I have managed to gather this sunburn thing is a armored supersonic anti-ship missile of some sort, beyond that I do not know, will someone give me an explanation please?

[Scuddie]

For those wondering...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskit

[Shade]

It's about the russian SS-N-22, or Moskit. Short-ish range sea-skimming ship-to-ship missile, but extremely fast at over mach 2 (making it very hard to hit, with anything) and with a decently powerful warhead. Range is too short (in my opinion, anyway, which is fairly irrelevant as I'm neither an admiral or a weapons expert, just a guy who finds stuff like this interesting ) for it to be viable in an anti-carrier role though, as the ship launching it would have a ***** of a time getting close enough.

[Edit] PS. The russians have, imo, always made more impressive (at least on paper) anti-ship and anti-air missiles than NATO countries. Just look at the Granit used by the Kirov class cruisers or the S-400 surface-to-air missile and tell me those don't look scary from an enemy's point of view.

[TrashMan]

That would depend on the CIWS. Most modern anti-ship missiles are armoured to a point where a gun such as the Vulcan used in the Phalanx system has more than a little trouble denting them, but the more recent missile based systems (like the ones based on the RAM Mars mentioned) would fare better. They're also often programmed to fly erratically when getting close to the target, letting them avoid much defensive gunfire - Again, though, that's less of a problem for a missile based system, since they can track it in flight.

Still, even the best CIWS in the world will not have a perfect record against something like the Sunburn. It's too fast, too armoured, and, if other Russian missiles are any indication, probably too smart for certainty in interception.

Bah..if 20mm CIWS don't get the job done you have the 30mm variant...and they put even more led in the air.
CIWS = pure pwnage

[Mefustae]

See, what you do, is you get a large squadron of Badgers to launch a large number of cruise missile drones - the target drone variant of the Kelt, for instance - from the outer RADAR range of the Carrier group, drawing off most of the carrier's air-wing as they try to intercept. All the while, a sizable squadron of Bears do their best to circle around the group and, once the American air-wing has been drawn off, light up and launch a bugger-load of Kingfish at the fleet. Scratch one fleet, at least for the time being.

[Shade]

Bah..if 20mm CIWS don't get the job done you have the 30mm variant...and they put even more led in the air.
CIWS = pure pwnage

Pure pwnage*, indeed, but unfortunately not pure win Gun based CIWS are being phased out for a reason: They are no longer effective enough againt the newer breeds of fast, armoured and very evasive missiles. And against something moving at mach2+, guns are just plain outclassed - Even if you do hit it and do hurt it, it still has enough momentum to cover the 2 miles of a gun's effective range.

Hence the current trend of transitioning to missile-based point defense systems, which have several advantages over the gun-based variety: Longer engagement range, ability to home on the target through the randomized course changes it uses to throw off guns, much better kill probability on a hit, some kill probability on a near miss due to proximity detonation, and the ability to engage multiple targets at the same time.

* I hate that word, along with most other deliberate misspellings. But I have to admit that, in the case of gun-based CIWS systems, it does apply.

[Kosh]

for it to be viable in an anti-carrier role though, as the ship launching it would have a ***** of a time getting close enough.

Could be used to pick off the carrier's escorts though.

[Steel Prophet]

Gun based CIWS are being phased out for a reason: They are no longer effective enough againt the newer breeds of fast, armoured and very evasive missiles.

That's quite the same development as it was with Anti-Aircraft weapons.  After WWII when the planes became faster and faster the usual AA-Guns became useless and SAMs came into use.

[redsniper]

See, what you do, is you get a large squadron of Badgers to launch a large number of cruise missile drones - the target drone variant of the Kelt, for instance - from the outer RADAR range of the Carrier group, drawing off most of the carrier's air-wing as they try to intercept. All the while, a sizable squadron of Bears do their best to circle around the group and, once the American air-wing has been drawn off, light up and launch a bugger-load of Kingfish at the fleet. Scratch one fleet, at least for the time being.

Red Storm Rising much?

As for defense, just give your troops sunscreen and shades.

[Mefustae]

Red Storm Rising much?

*Joy* Someone got the incredibly obscure reference.

[General Battuta]

Real-time satellite coverage would probably make such a tactic difficult in the near future. Not impossible, but difficult.

[Wanderer]

Well given that Red Storm Rising begins with - among other things - destruction and disruption of US/NATO satellites using hunter/killer satellites that tracking would be a tad difficult. That is if comparing things to that particular book

[Mefustae]

Indeed. And anyway, satellite reconnaissance doesn't work like that. You can't just park a satellite in geosync orbit above the Carrier Battlegroup and maintain overwatch indefinitely, the satellite is going to be actively orbiting and will only pass over the Battlegroup every few hours. Coupled with the fact that the operators will be armed only with a vague direction and time of the attack, relying on Sat-based intelligence to warn you of an attack is risky at best.

[General Battuta]

You're right, of course. I was thinking of Dale Brown (terrible writer, but some decent ideas) and his rapid-launch satellites for on-demand coverage, but I'm not sure how practical those are.

And good point with the satellite killing.

[TrashMan]

Gun based CIWS are being phased out for a reason: They are no longer effective enough againt the newer breeds of fast, armoured and very evasive missiles.

I never heard anything about them being phased out.
But you got to remember that CIWS are the LAST line of defense. I don't think they were ever meant to protect the ship by themselves.

Aditionally, even at mach 2, geting hit by a gattling equals getting blow to smitherines. The missile will definately NOT reach the ship.