[azile0]

Well, what if you need to quickly move it? or, chamge it's position so that ships never know where it is.
This is just a suggestion, too.

[TrashMan]

A Mjolnir has little use besides node blockades. If you don't know from where the enemy will come, don't deploy the Mjolnir.

Unless they make a manuverable version that can rotate (some basic thrusters) and is equipped with point defenses, it's simply too vulnerable in other positions.

[azile0]

Well, I meant this  :

A corvette comes through a node, and gets blown up by a Mjlonir. So, the other side plans ahead, and sends in fighters to attack the thing. Only, the Mjlonir has moved, and the fighters are taken out before they can transmit this. So, in comes another corvette, planning on destroying it, to find it isn't there. Then, they are rended from behind.

[TrashMan]

Or you can just stick a few AAAf's ont he Mjolnir and throw in  a few GOOD Sentry guns for good mesure...

[terran_emperor]

Yeah but for the anti-fighter beams, you need a tech accurate Mjolnir - see my thread on inacurate tech descriptions

[TrashMan]

Yeah but for the anti-fighter beams, you need a tech accurate Mjolnir - see my thread on inacurate tech descriptions

Right..I'll make one..after I finish the Demon, the new colossus and a about a dozen other ships...which would mean it could be done in a week or two..assuming I don't start working on something new. which I allways do. In that case assume 28.12.2237

[terran_emperor]

When you're done, can you put up download links?

[instinctepyon]

They might fight off a couple Sathanes that way... but 80? Come on! When you are outnumbered that much it is simply an unstoppable force.

You forget that the Saths had attendant fleets "flooding into Gamma Draconis"* behind them. If we figure just 2 destroyers per Sath, that's over 150 destroyers! And you can double that number for corvettes and at least triple it for cruisers. Compare to the GTVA's total combined fleets of about (I'm making an educated guess) no more than 40 destroyers. Do the math. The GTVA would've been annihilated.

And a Sath still stands up pretty well against a combined assault. In Blue Planet a Sath comes under fire from two destroyers, three corvettes, and at least three wings of bombers carrying the most powerful bombs in the arsenal. Still took over five minutes to kill the blasted thing, and it didn't even start at full health!


*As stated by late-game briefing.

I think Dark Hunter makes a VERY valid point here, there are two main reasons for this:

1.  In the mission "Endgame" (where you are protecting the refugees fleeing from Capella), in the briefing it states something along the lines of "Try to keep as many of the escort ships intact as possible as their loss would be a terrible blow".  Judging from this, I think it is safe to assume that the GTVA fleet is in so much trouble that I would cut Dark Hunter's estimates of destroyers in the GTVA fleet by half.  Also the combat effectiveness of the fleet would have suffered because of the low morale after the setbacks caused by the Sathanas' ability to use uncharted or unstable jump nodes, the Colossus being destroyed by the Ravana and the sheer hopelessness of the prospect of facing 80 Shivan Juggernauts.

2.  The Sathanas is far too powerful a ship for anything to stand up to it.  Even a single Sathanas with it's support group of destroyers and cruisers could probably have destroyed the last of the GTVA fleet without too much trouble.  What a lot of people don't seem to take into consideration that going toe to toe with a Sathanas that has only fighter and bomber support is suicide.  The Colossus only managed to stand up to the Sathanas was because your bomber wing took out it's forward beam cannons, even then it had to stay out of range of the other beam cannons.

[karajorma]

With over one hundred thousand casualties and more Shivans incoming, we have no hope of holding Capella. Our only real chance is to seal off the system and prevent the invasion from spreading to other Terran-Vasudan worlds. If we fail to contain the Shivan advance, we will unleash the second Great War, a conflict we have virtually no chance of surviving. The Lucifer fleet we defeated 32 years ago is nothing compared to the strength of this armada.

I would have thought that alone pretty conclusively stated the GTVA's chance of beating the Sathanas fleet.

[TrashMan]

In this case the numerical superiortiy was just too great for any fancy tactics to work.

If the GTVA had 10 Collies, then I'd say - hey, if you play it smart and make really, REALLY good node blockades...then you might stand a chance...but fighting 80 Saths?

That would be like sending 10 soldiers armed with muskets against a division of marines.

[Admiral_Stones]

They might fight off a couple Sathanes that way... but 80? Come on! When you are outnumbered that much it is simply an unstoppable force.

You forget that the Saths had attendant fleets "flooding into Gamma Draconis"* behind them. If we figure just 2 destroyers per Sath, that's over 150 destroyers! And you can double that number for corvettes and at least triple it for cruisers. Compare to the GTVA's total combined fleets of about (I'm making an educated guess) no more than 40 destroyers. Do the math. The GTVA would've been annihilated.

And a Sath still stands up pretty well against a combined assault. In Blue Planet a Sath comes under fire from two destroyers, three corvettes, and at least three wings of bombers carrying the most powerful bombs in the arsenal. Still took over five minutes to kill the blasted thing, and it didn't even start at full health!


*As stated by late-game briefing.

I think Dark Hunter makes a VERY valid point here, there are two main reasons for this:

1.  In the mission "Endgame" (where you are protecting the refugees fleeing from Capella), in the briefing it states something along the lines of "Try to keep as many of the escort ships intact as possible as their loss would be a terrible blow".  Judging from this, I think it is safe to assume that the GTVA fleet is in so much trouble that I would cut Dark Hunter's estimates of destroyers in the GTVA fleet by half.  Also the combat effectiveness of the fleet would have suffered because of the low morale after the setbacks caused by the Sathanas' ability to use uncharted or unstable jump nodes, the Colossus being destroyed by the Ravana and the sheer hopelessness of the prospect of facing 80 Shivan Juggernauts.

2.  The Sathanas is far too powerful a ship for anything to stand up to it.  Even a single Sathanas with it's support group of destroyers and cruisers could probably have destroyed the last of the GTVA fleet without too much trouble.  What a lot of people don't seem to take into consideration that going toe to toe with a Sathanas that has only fighter and bomber support is suicide.  The Colossus only managed to stand up to the Sathanas was because your bomber wing took out it's forward beam cannons, even then it had to stay out of range of the other beam cannons.

Actually, the Colossus was destroyed by a second Sathanas, not by a Ravana, atleast for me.

[AlphaOne]

the point about the collosus is very valid ! Also i do not believe the GTVA In the state it was in could of done anithing to stop the shivan armada let alone defeat it! Sure had they had 10 collossus class warships and perhaps 50 or 60 friggates to augment the heavy weaponry deployment in the fleets then perhaps they could of found a way to at least inflict severe dammgae to the Sathans fleet so much so that it would make the shivans retreat but that woyuld mean blowing up more then 60 of them juggs!

[TrashMan]

the point about the collosus is very valid ! Also i do not believe the GTVA In the state it was in could of done anithing to stop the shivan armada let alone defeat it! Sure had they had 10 collossus class warships and perhaps 50 or 60 friggates to augment the heavy weaponry deployment in the fleets then perhaps they could of found a way to at least inflict severe dammgae to the Sathans fleet so much so that it would make the shivans retreat but that woyuld mean blowing up more then 60 of them juggs!

If you had 10 Collies and adequate escorts fleets it's still possible. WE humies are good in defense

[AlphaOne]

yeah but the shivans are even better in offence!

[TrashMan]

Sez you. Honestly, the shivies lost most of their advantages from the Great War - the tech gap between the GTVA and them closed significantly.

They have numbers - a really crucial advantage and one that can be hardly matched by the GTVA.

[Mobius]

What about " should have created better Shivan primaries and original Shivan secondaries?"

You simply can't discuss about their real effectiveness and power in the Universe though you're free to do it when talking about the game.

[Kie99]

Sez you. Honestly, the shivies lost most of their advantages from the Great War - the tech gap between the GTVA and them closed significantly.

They have numbers - a really crucial advantage and one that can be hardly matched by the GTVA.

Numbers, more powerful weapons, weapons that can fire more often, superior subspace technology, they can nuke a star in a couple of weeks.  It's a lot more than just numbers.

[Mobius]

A Mjolnir has little use besides node blockades. If you don't know from where the enemy will come, don't deploy the Mjolnir.

Unless they make a manuverable version that can rotate (some basic thrusters) and is equipped with point defenses, it's simply too vulnerable in other positions.

Speaking of the Mjolnir...

Since SEXPs are useless(when a Mjolnir is set to face a target the beam points elsewhere) is there a way to create a meneuverable version?

[AlphaOne]

well they indeed have more powerfull weapons that can fire faster but then again the GTVA started on a trend that also gives them and advantage and that is range! GTVA BEAM CANNONS CAN BE MADE TO FIRE AT LONGER DISTANCES AND IF SUCH AN ADVANTAGE WERE TO BE IMPROVED THEN THE SHIVANS WOULD find themselfs with a far smaller advantage then before also blowing up a star required over 80 juggs so in my book that equal to massive resources beeing tied down for very long periods of time!

[Mobius]

Are you refering to the LRBGreen or whatever is called?

It's the result of a prolonged reactor overload. I bet it was also made to make High Noon beatable.