[Desert Tyrant]

I doubt the Hecate could be as effective as an Orion. It's beam placement leave a lot to be desired for. But the Orion definately has room for improvement.

The Hecate can bring three beam cannons to bear on a target attacking from the front, assuming the target is moving in at 20-ish degrees.  The Hecate is quite far from helpless in combat.  I tested a Hecate against a Typhon one time and it fire three beams against said destroyer.  The Hecate's AA weaponry is also a damn sight better than the Orions.  (For how much I love the damn thing, it's got terrible AA unless all the top guns are converted into flak.)

 The Hecate excels at killing off fighters and other smaller craft. It's not very well balanced but when you look at the GTD Orion,
it can't even kill a single fighter that is actually clever. (Terran turrets don't do anything).

It's only good at destroying cruisers and the like.

The Orion has more main beam cannons than any other ship of its particular size in either the GTVA or the Shivan fleets,  (That we've seen) and a broadside can easily badly damage Corvettes and deliver a hurting to a destroyer.  The Orion mounts more BGreens (Large-caliber beam cannons) than any other Capital Ship currently in the GTVA fleet.  TO get rid of such a ship is folly, to say the least.

Icefire: I do belive the reason why the it's assumed that the Hatshepsut outnumbers the Hecates is because its tech-room description states that the Vasudan side of the GTVA Navy began building the ships in 2360.  We don't really knopw about when the Hecate-class began production, and given that we only know two of them existing (Aside from Independance, from the mutiplayer mission Through the Iron Gate), it's assumed that the Hecate is newer than the Vasudan destroyer.

[AlphaOne]

Ppl must remember that the Hecate was not originaly designed to be a front line heavy combat warship but rather a command and contro carrie with combat abilaties ! The Hattie on the other hand along with the Orion seem to be the heavy hitters of the fleet. Also there was a lot of talk at the begining of the FS2 and in the tech room about phasing out the orion with Hecates. Well that may be all good to hear but then again what are they gooing to replace it with? I mean the Hattie is good but its second place when it comes to the Orion . And the Hecate well considering fighterbay and aaaf abilaties it may be the best but im betting that the Hattie has an equal amoun of fighters in its fighterbays.

But not as good a aaaf defence screen. With all of these said each ship is necesarry to the GTVA now each design ! The orion is definetly one ship that has a huge amount of potential in it and a lot of room for improvements. As i said before had it over to the vasudans for some rewiring and some reactor upgrades and the Orion could easely become the most powerfull overall destroyer in game!

[eliex]

 Not to mention that there are no blindspots and that it has a very thin profile for a very powerful destroyer! 

[TrashMan]

But not as good a aaaf defence screen. With all of these said each ship is necesarry to the GTVA now each design ! The orion is definetly one ship that has a huge amount of potential in it and a lot of room for improvements. As i said before had it over to the vasudans for some rewiring and some reactor upgrades and the Orion could easely become the most powerfull overall destroyer in game!

You mean like this:
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTHD_Orion_Mk2

[Admiral_Stones]

Ppl must remember that the Hecate was not originaly designed to be a front line heavy combat warship but rather a command and contro carrie with combat abilaties ! The Hattie on the other hand along with the Orion seem to be the heavy hitters of the fleet. Also there was a lot of talk at the begining of the FS2 and in the tech room about phasing out the orion with Hecates. Well that may be all good to hear but then again what are they gooing to replace it with? I mean the Hattie is good but its second place when it comes to the Orion . And the Hecate well considering fighterbay and aaaf abilaties it may be the best but im betting that the Hattie has an equal amoun of fighters in its fighterbays.

But not as good a aaaf defence screen. With all of these said each ship is necesarry to the GTVA now each design ! The orion is definetly one ship that has a huge amount of potential in it and a lot of room for improvements. As i said before had it over to the vasudans for some rewiring and some reactor upgrades and the Orion could easely become the most powerfull overall destroyer in game!

Ahhhhhh, this grammar makes my cry! My eyes are bleeding and my text processing hard- and software (brain) exploding!

I might get a errection too.

[AlphaOne]

Sorry was in a hurry to write that and this keyboard suck big time! But you must agree phasing out a ship the most powerfull non jugg class of ship the GTVA has and hjave nothing to replace it with especialy after Capella is/would be a catastrophic decision.

If anything they should reactivate old Orions that went into conservation rewire them (this time for the love of all thats holy to the GTVA let the vasudans bring the beasts back to life. Hell if theyre too proud they can use terran beams just get the vasudan reactors and power grids along with more flack turrets! Hell al im asking is 3 or 4 more flack turrets even those should boost the aaaf defensive capabilaties of the Orion significantly or better yet get the orion some more aaaf beams . Just dont you dare touch those heavy beam cannons!

[Kosh]

The Hecate can bring three beam cannons to bear on a target attacking from the front, assuming the target is moving in at 20-ish degrees.  The Hecate is quite far from helpless in combat.

Whomever designed the Hecate severely overestimated the effectiveness of the Terslash.......

[eliex]

 Well, at least there's one consolation: The TerSlash is way better than the SGreen.
Way better. 

[TrashMan]

Not really....

[Mobius]

The Hecate can bring three beam cannons to bear on a target attacking from the front, assuming the target is moving in at 20-ish degrees.  The Hecate is quite far from helpless in combat.

Whomever designed the Hecate severely overestimated the effectiveness of the Terslash.......

You mean the one who created the table entry. If you look at the model you can easily notice that there are three big beams(BGreens). Two of them are TerSlash for obvious reasons.

[TrashMan]

All beam turret models look the same.

The Hecate has 1 BGreen and the rest are Slashers.

[eliex]

 Really? When I play - and I didn't mess around with the weapons tablet, the two front beam cannons on the head of the destroyer are BGreens. The rear turrets as well is a BGreen.

[Kie99]

Rear turret is probably an SGreen.  The lower beam on the front looks like a BGreen but slashes across the hull.

[Desert Tyrant]

Rear turret is probably an SGreen.  The lower beam on the front looks like a BGreen but slashes across the hull.

That's a negatory.  One BGreen, four TerSlashers.

Whomever designed the Hecate severely overestimated the effectiveness of the Terslash.......

Well, yeah, but it's still pretty well-gunned; More so than the Typhon and the Hatshepsut (Hatshep using more efficient beams, though.)
I'd wager a Hecate being able to take down a Typhon, but the Hatshepsut has better accuracy, and the Orion simply mounts a better array of weapons.

 Well, at least there's one consolation: The TerSlash is way better than the SGreen.
Way better. 

It'd be a much better beam if the re-fire time was fifteeen seconds vs. 45.  You can at least claim at that point that balance would have a SGreen do low sustained damage.  The SGreen as is right now a terribly inefficient weapon.  It's good for raiding and getting the first shot in (Smashing another cruiser initialy or at least badly damaging a freighter.), but for not a whole lot else.  SVas Mounted on the Hatshepsut is much better. (It works wonderfully if you replace the Subach Turret on the Mentu with a SVas, though that's uncanonical)

Terran beams do have the advantage of being mounted in more numbers than their Vasudan and Shivan counterparts.

[Snail]

Really? When I play - and I didn't mess around with the weapons tablet, the two front beam cannons on the head of the destroyer are BGreens. The rear turrets as well is a BGreen.

Well you probably were mistaken, there is only one BGreen and the other anti-cap beams, of which there are four, are armed with TerSlashes.

[AlphaOne]

So basicly in order to ballance the Hecate they took out its teeth with a wooden bat and replaced them with slashers which we ll know how good they are .

Also i though the Hattie had more heavy firepower then the Hecate i believed its heavy beams were colse to that of the Orion but not quite there! Anyway as i said before the GTVA really needs to poor some disgusting amount of money and resources into upragind theyr beams and reactor sistems inclueding the heatsinks.

[Mobius]

All beam turret models look the same.

The Hecate has 1 BGreen and the rest are Slashers.

But they're the way too big to be SGreens or TerSlash. changed the table to balance the Hecate. I remember the Demo Tech Description...the Hecate was "more heavily armed and armored than the Orion". The hitpoints are now 100,000 and there's just one BGreen.

In Steadfast, SthCrs and any other thing I have been working I changed the table entry of the Hecate to make it closer to the original concept(and the Hecate of the FS Universe, that is supposed to be superior to the Orion under all aspects).

Look at the Hatshepsut and its multiple BVas, look at the Mentu and its lack of beams, look at the Rakshasa and the fact that it should have 4 SReds instead of 3...

[TrashMan]

If changes were made, they were made for a reason.

What [V] decided to go with in the end is canon. Altough I have a hard time understaning the no-beam Mentu (maby it was a fluke) it is as it is.

Tht said, in my own campaign I also beef up the Hecate by giving it MGreens instead of slashers

[eliex]

 But how many times do destroyers turn up in open combat?
Surely one would place more interest in the Admiral's tactical skill rather than the sheer firepower of their ship.

The Hecate might be pathetic by itself, but with fighters and bombers it's a different story.
Also while the hull itself is the weakest for it's type in the game, it has the strongest turret plating for it's type.

VERY difficult to knock out a Long Range Flak turret with a duo Stellitos as well as dodging all the beam turrets firing up at you.

[AlphaOne]

well yeah that may be true but then again shivans have a nasty habbit of deployng more cap ships hen they do fighters/bommbers. Lol whenver you think youre done another 2 or 3 cruisers and corvettes appear on the battlefield.

Also whyle i do agree that the tactical emphasis of the Hecate can not be denied the fact that it can not defend itself agains even a cruiser is prety pathetic for a ships that big.