Author Topic: Campaign Idea  (Read 3850 times)

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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This would take a lot of work but I started thinking about it the other day after posing in the campaigns? thread. 

Return of the Dilgar / The Hand

You play a Dilgar pilot.
First mission takes place in the Orion colonies at the end of the Dilgar War of course you are forced to retreat
Next mission is kind of a cutscene mission with the Dilgar sun going nova.  You and some of your colleagues are rescued by an unknown force and pulled into hyperspace just as the blast from the nova arrives.
You awaken 40 or so years later later after the shadow war. 
Flashback mission to the Dilgar War.  Maybe a Narn battle.
Back to present and a scouting mission on the rim.  Contact with a race.
Elimination of the race.
Flashback (strange ship watching in distance)
Contact with another race.
Alliance formation (guard against ranger ships)
Meeting the masters (The Hand)
From here you can go just about any direction.  All kind of possibilites with The Hand/Dilgar/rim races aligned with the new masters vs the B5 crowd. 

Like I said it would be one heck of a lot of work.  New ships and everything required.  I don't have the time or the skills needed but maybe someone is looking for an idea who does. 

No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline maje

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I don't know, the Hand don't really get any play outside of the Legend of the Rangers pilot and JMS seems to be moot on the subject, which of course, is really annoying since any fanon has to be carefully considered to not contradict canon that's already been established.  From what I gathered, the conflict against the Hand was never intended to go into a full blown invasion of the Milky Way and become an all-out war like the Shadow or even Drakh Wars.  I believe that the plan was that there would be a major battle going down that would essentially reseal the Hand back into exile, similar to that of Thirdspace.

Interestingly enough, the original premise of the Legend of the Rangers would've dealt with the aftermath of the Shadow War and explained their legacy and how it affected the universe (whereas Crusade was focusing more on how the Shadows infiltrated and manipulated high levels of Earth Force).  So, if that's the premise, what does the Hand have to do with this?

Well..... here's my theory.  If indeed the Hand are as powerful as they claimed to be, and it is true that they were sealed away over a million years ago (or billion, I can't remember), then it seems that the force of light that stopped them in this little corner of the galaxy would've been the First Ones.

Now, remember, Minister Kafka said that the Hand were even more powerful than the Shadows, which if true, would mean the other First Ones would not be a match on a 1-v-1 scenario.  The only hope that the First Ones have, are to pull together and fight as One.  Now think about it.... which race has always emphasized teamwork and unity? The Vorlons.  And because their is strength through teamwork, this becomes the cornerstone philosophy that the Vorlons would wish to past down to the younger races.

However, in this case, the Vorlon method of alliance and unity is not enough.  While definitely curbing the Hand advance, it's not enough to push back.  The Hand with their war-like ruthlessness continues to push through in certain sectors until they finally are met by a race that's just as bloodthirsty and power-mad as they are.  These of course are the Shadows.  And because the Shadows revel in chaos, they evolved much faster than the other First Ones and offer the Hand an enemy that can actually go one on one and NOT lose.  However, the Shadows do not have nearly enough man-power to completely engage the Hand, so they decide to pull their forces with the other First Ones, and together, they drive out the Hand and seal them into an unknown dimension.


Fastfoward a bit to where the younger races are finally coming around, the Vorlons and Shadows take it upon themselves to prepare the 'children' to be strong against what lies ahead.  The Shadows want the younger ones to evolve quickly, so that they will have the confidence to be able to thwart anyone who attempts to harm them, and the Vorlons want them all working together so that no single power will be able to dominate them.

Both sides understood and respected these positions and thus came to a compromise and took several races under their wing.  The Shadows would teach the Drakh, Zener, Taratimude, Wurt, Ikarrans, etc, and the Vorlons would work with the Minbari, Narn, Centauri, and Humans, etc.
However, when it became clear that certain races excelled differently and began to determine their own paths, this caused a conundrum.  (The Centauri were already proving to be more well versed in Shadow philosophy with the constant fighting against the Xon, and the Taratimude near the end, opted for Order and created the Technomages).  Eventually, wars broke out between younger races, and then the parents (Vorlons and Shadows) began to step in, but at this point were so engaged in resolving their ideological differences, began to only exasserbate the process to the point where as to paraphrase Delenn in "Into the Fire", "you've been fighting each other for so long, you've forgotten why".

So, yeah, to make a long story short.  This story idea would be the explanation of what originally started the ideological conflict between the Vorlons and the Shadows.
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline IPAndrews

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I'm always happy to see people working on campaign ideas. In this case though may I suggest a campaign premise for which we have a lafrge supply of completed ships? Since TBP is no longer in development and there are no completed hand ships. This might make a Hand campaign quite difficult to realise.
Be warned: This site's admins stole 100s of hours of my work. They will do it to you.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Yea I know it would be difficult but thought I'd throw it out there while I was thinking about it.  It's really more of a Dilgar campaign but looking in FRED I see no Dilgar ships so that's kind of a dead end too.   :( 

Oh well maybe after a few beer's I'll come up with something more easily accomplished in the short term.
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline maje

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Ian, I have a Hand ship all modeled and UVs laid out.  I just need to get it properly textured (uses procedurals at the moment), and get it in-game.

FUBAR, you need to run The Babylon Project in "Inferno" mode which will introduce you to a plethora of new ships, such as the Dilgar, Thirdspace Aliens, most of the First Ones (barring the Walkers of Sigma 957), and custom Star Furies for Presidential Escort, Commander Sinclair, Captain Sheridan, and Lt. Commander Ivanova.
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Forgot about the inferno thing.  Copied FRED2_Open 3.6.10 over for a test and was looking in that. 

From what I see there are only 2 Dilgar ship classes.  One fighter and one Cap.  Wouldn't be too much fun fighting from the Dilgar side of things.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 05:18:55 pm by FUBAR-BDHR »
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline maje

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no, probably not. :doubt:
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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OK I've rethought this and it may still be possible to do. 

You play a Dilgar pilot.

Phase 1 Intro

First mission takes place in the Orion colonies at the end of the Dilgar War of course you are forced to retreat
Next mission is kind of a cutscene mission with the Dilgar sun going nova.  You and some of your colleagues are rescued by an unknown force and pulled into hyperspace just as the blast from the nova arrives.
You awaken 40 or so years later later after the shadow war.
Flashback mission to the Dilgar War.  Maybe a Narn battle.
Back to present and a scouting mission on the rim.  Contact with a race.
Elimination of the race.
Flashback (strange ship watching in distance)
Contact with another race.
Alliance formation (guard against ranger ships)
Meeting the masters (The Hand) maybe an escort mission.
Room for few missions here

Phase 2 Plathos survivors
Contact with the Plathos colony
Refusal of Plathos Dilgar to join The Hand
Always room for a flashback.  Maybe family oriented
Ordered to Destroy Plythos
Battle with League while Plythos is evacuated
Another flashback
Your squad defects to protect the Plythos survivors
Survive

Phase 3 Mercenary mode
Your squad escorts the Plythos survivors to B5 where you become mercs
A number of missions (at least 5) where you hire yourself out to different races to battle The Hand, Dilgar and their Allies.  You choose the mission order and are able to pick up new ships and weapons by completeing them.  Thinking of the persistent variable & looping missions scenario. 
When enough missions are complete (say 4 of the 5) you can continue on to the next missions
Bonus mission possibility
Haven't figured out the rest. 










No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline darkmaster

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I don't know, the Hand don't really get any play outside of the Legend of the Rangers pilot and JMS seems to be moot on the subject, which of course, is really annoying since any fanon has to be carefully considered to not contradict canon that's already been established.  From what I gathered, the conflict against the Hand was never intended to go into a full blown invasion of the Milky Way and become an all-out war like the Shadow or even Drakh Wars.  I believe that the plan was that there would be a major battle going down that would essentially reseal the Hand back into exile, similar to that of Thirdspace.

Interestingly enough, the original premise of the Legend of the Rangers would've dealt with the aftermath of the Shadow War and explained their legacy and how it affected the universe (whereas Crusade was focusing more on how the Shadows infiltrated and manipulated high levels of Earth Force).  So, if that's the premise, what does the Hand have to do with this?

Well..... here's my theory.  If indeed the Hand are as powerful as they claimed to be, and it is true that they were sealed away over a million years ago (or billion, I can't remember), then it seems that the force of light that stopped them in this little corner of the galaxy would've been the First Ones.

Now, remember, Minister Kafka said that the Hand were even more powerful than the Shadows, which if true, would mean the other First Ones would not be a match on a 1-v-1 scenario.  The only hope that the First Ones have, are to pull together and fight as One.  Now think about it.... which race has always emphasized teamwork and unity? The Vorlons.  And because their is strength through teamwork, this becomes the cornerstone philosophy that the Vorlons would wish to past down to the younger races.

However, in this case, the Vorlon method of alliance and unity is not enough.  While definitely curbing the Hand advance, it's not enough to push back.  The Hand with their war-like ruthlessness continues to push through in certain sectors until they finally are met by a race that's just as bloodthirsty and power-mad as they are.  These of course are the Shadows.  And because the Shadows revel in chaos, they evolved much faster than the other First Ones and offer the Hand an enemy that can actually go one on one and NOT lose.  However, the Shadows do not have nearly enough man-power to completely engage the Hand, so they decide to pull their forces with the other First Ones, and together, they drive out the Hand and seal them into an unknown dimension.


Fastfoward a bit to where the younger races are finally coming around, the Vorlons and Shadows take it upon themselves to prepare the 'children' to be strong against what lies ahead.  The Shadows want the younger ones to evolve quickly, so that they will have the confidence to be able to thwart anyone who attempts to harm them, and the Vorlons want them all working together so that no single power will be able to dominate them.

Both sides understood and respected these positions and thus came to a compromise and took several races under their wing.  The Shadows would teach the Drakh, Zener, Taratimude, Wurt, Ikarrans, etc, and the Vorlons would work with the Minbari, Narn, Centauri, and Humans, etc.
However, when it became clear that certain races excelled differently and began to determine their own paths, this caused a conundrum.  (The Centauri were already proving to be more well versed in Shadow philosophy with the constant fighting against the Xon, and the Taratimude near the end, opted for Order and created the Technomages).  Eventually, wars broke out between younger races, and then the parents (Vorlons and Shadows) began to step in, but at this point were so engaged in resolving their ideological differences, began to only exasserbate the process to the point where as to paraphrase Delenn in "Into the Fire", "you've been fighting each other for so long, you've forgotten why".

So, yeah, to make a long story short.  This story idea would be the explanation of what originally started the ideological conflict between the Vorlons and the Shadows.

I think the Walkers can deal with the Hand themselves, and it was the Walkers who sealed the Hand. Among those First Ones that have birth rate only the Walkers can enter other dimensions, they have mastered dimensional technology so the Hand was no match to them. 
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline maje

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and your source for this is......?  Sorry, I don't ever remember the Walkers being able to traverse different dimensions other than hyperspace.  The only other dimension breached by a First Ones race that's canon, was Thirdspace, and that was done by the Vorlons.  There is of course quantum space which ISA One used in B5 The Lost Tales.
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline darkmaster

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and your source for this is......?  Sorry, I don't ever remember the Walkers being able to traverse different dimensions other than hyperspace.  The only other dimension breached by a First Ones race that's canon, was Thirdspace, and that was done by the Vorlons.  There is of course quantum space which ISA One used in B5 The Lost Tales.

My source is "War of the ancients" , and those infos are provided by JMS. Check it out.  http://www.stanaback.com/ships/Babylon5Wars/Wars-of-the-Ancients/Wars-of-the-Ancients.pdf

The Walkers is far more advanced than all other First Ones. They're the first to discover Hyperspace, and entered Thirdspace even before entering Hyperspace. You should read it, it also explain the conflict between Walkers and Vorlons. 
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

 

Offline maje

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well, you certainly showed me.  :wtf: :doubt:  :p :D  It's actually a pretty good read, though the only thing that I'm baffled by is that you said the Walkers sealed the Hand.  I don't remember seeing any references to the Hand, only that the Walkers had discovered Thirdspace before the Vorlons, and afterwards discovered Hyperspace.  Didn't really mention that the Walkers sealed away the Thirdspace aliens, so much as their method of extradimensional travel didn't open a doorway into our universe the way the Vorlons Thirdspace jumpgate did.

Also, I don't believe that the Thirdspace aliens and the Hand are the same.  For one, the Thirdspace aliens employed a telepathic means of manipulation over those they wished to use, whereas I believe the Hand used a different means  (dreams of conquest, much the same way that the Shadows used the other races).
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline darkmaster

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Uhm well I said "I think that the Walkers sealed the Hand "  ;7 , and I know that the Thirdspace alien is not the Hand.
From "Legend of the Rangers" we know that the Hand is far more powerful than Shadows, so we need another force as advanced as them to kick their ass. Certainly it's not Shadows or Vorlons , they're just too weak. This force must know how to enter other dimensions, so it must be Lorien, the Triad, or the Walkers. I like Walkers so I just pick them. :) .
Maybe it was the Triad of Construct ( force of light) who sealed the Hand. We don't even know if the Hand is just one being or a whole race, maybe the Hand is something similar to the Triad, an entity that can create things by mind. How could a whole race be trapped in another dimension if they were not very limited in number ?   
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 10:15:03 pm by darkmaster »
TBP's apprentice FREDDER.

Campaign in development:
Guardian of Light (Demo state)(Download DEMO here)
The First Invasion - Part 1 (Planning Concept)

Single Mission :
Human-Narn First Contact (Download here)

  

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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I don't remember the Hand being sealed.  They were exiled and just returning.  I took it as they were returning because the race(s) that exiled them had left.  Now at the end of the Shadow war the league with some help from a few remaining first ones was ready to take on both the Vorlons and Shadows.  It may have been a bluff but it was a good one.  "Now get the hell out of or galaxy" ring a bell?  If you were an exiled race and all of a sudden all the races that exiled you left wouldn't you want to take back what was yours?
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras