Author Topic: The boanerges  (Read 7680 times)

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Offline Shade

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That would be evil. I think many people don't realise how evil flak really is, probably due to not playing at the higher difficulties. On Hard and especially Insane, AAA beams are a major nuisance, but flak is death incarnate. So please don't ever put flak on a bomber, lest we might one day have to kill one of them :p
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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That would be evil. I think many people don't realise how evil flak really is, probably due to not playing at the higher difficulties. On Hard and especially Insane, AAA beams are a major nuisance, but flak is death incarnate. So please don't ever put flak on a bomber, lest we might one day have to kill one of them :p
I think flak's only dangerous in groups of...uhh, three, at least. Flak cannons CAN rip through shields, but if you were to put them in a way like how they put them on the Deimos corvette or Aeolus cruiser...urgh. :nervous:
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 
Deimos: Eat meh flak.
Aeolus: Flak you!
boanerges w/ flak cannon: Not so ****ty now, eh, biotch!?
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline blowfish

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That would be evil. I think many people don't realise how evil flak really is, probably due to not playing at the higher difficulties. On Hard and especially Insane, AAA beams are a major nuisance, but flak is death incarnate.

Agreed.  If you go up against a capship with flak turrets on something like Insane, you have SECONDS to live, even in a fast, maneuverable fighter.

Interestingly though, the Ursa seems to take damage from flak over time on all difficulties.  It will eat away at your shields then chew through your hull.  The Boanerges does not seem to have this problem, probably because it is smaller.  Beams seem to be more of a problem on lower difficulties, maybe they do not increase in effectiveness so much as you push up the difficulty.

I personally agree that flak on a bomber would be a nightmare, but they seem awfully defenseless with just tiny laser turrets to defend themselves with.

Aeolus: Flak you!

LOL :lol:

 
I personally agree that flak on a bomber would be a nightmare, but they seem awfully defenseless with just tiny laser turrets to defend themselves with.

Bombers are not supposed to be able to defend themselves all that well. That's what fighters are there for. Bombers have one reason and one reason only in their existence: launch bombs at big ships.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 
and look good doing it. thats where the boanerges fails.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Hmm...if you put a flak cannon on a Boanerges, don't you need to sacrifice loadout capacity for flak ammo?
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 
not to mention the cannon could only fire a few rounds anyway assuming you could fit one on the bomber, due to the (probably) big size of the shells.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Retsof

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So you make really small flak... we could call it the "popcorn gun"! :lol:
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I can't help but hear a shotgun cocking with this.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Hmm...if you put a flak cannon on a Boanerges, don't you need to sacrifice loadout capacity for flak ammo?

*shakes head

I'd imagine you could easily fit 100 rounds easily in any bomber, with only 1 or 2 bomb removed. The rounds are a lot smaller than you think.

The laser bolts in freespace are actually several meters large. Make a weapon that's bolt is 1m by 1m. Pretty tiny, right? Keep in mind that it's a meter. Flak rounds would be at most 20cm by 10cm at most.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Hmm...if you put a flak cannon on a Boanerges, don't you need to sacrifice loadout capacity for flak ammo?

*shakes head

I'd imagine you could easily fit 100 rounds easily in any bomber, with only 1 or 2 bomb removed. The rounds are a lot smaller than you think.

The laser bolts in freespace are actually several meters large. Make a weapon that's bolt is 1m by 1m. Pretty tiny, right? Keep in mind that it's a meter. Flak rounds would be at most 20cm by 10cm at most.

Hmm...you might have a point there...but don't flak cannons fire shells in groups of three? Or is that a side-effect of motion blur?
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline blowfish

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That must be an illusion, or possibly the random turret fire delay, because flak turrets should fire at a constant rate.  That rate can be pretty fast though, with Standard Flak it is almost 7 rounds per second, which could eat through ammo pretty fast.  It might be cool (but annoying) if your turret could run out of ammo, but you could refill it by rearming.

 

Offline Killer Whale

  • 29
  • Oh no, not again.
I always play on easy/very easy and flaks seem to do nothing! The Triple As are really annoying, especially when leading a wing against a capital ship

Alpha 1, 2000 m from rakshasa, < 100 m/s

Alpha 2-4, Beta, Epsilon, and Delta, 5000 m from rackshasa, > 75 m/s

Alpha 1, Critical

Rest, 100%  :hopping:

"Why don't you go beam one of the other fighters hey?! Why do you keep on picking on me?"
"The other fighters are out of range."
"No their not! Their right over... where are they? 'f', 'f', 'f'. Howcome their all clicks away? Hey wingmates, do you know what afterburners are?"  :mad:

 

Offline Shade

  • 211
Yeah, it's not until hard/insane that flak gets truely evil. Lower than that, and the reduced damage combined with boosted shield recharge makes it hard for it to get past your shields. Before I started playing it online, I never played on anything harder than normal, and it was quite a shock suddenly having to fear flak more than any other capship weapon... in other words, I died constantly until I got my tactics sorted out to cope with it  :p

(I still die constantly, but now at least I tend to get my bombs off first ;))
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 

Offline Vip

  • 28
Indeed, on normal the game becomes enjoyable (it's just too easy on lower settings - "What ?! That Sathanas' beam hit me and I lost 50% hull ?! Can't be !!!"), and on easier it's really challenging. However, I've noted an interesting thing - although the capship's defences are a nightmare on >normal, your warheads too more damage. I have played the Bearbeating dozens of times on Easy, and not once was I able to knock down more than two beams. I turned on Normal, and I got all four without a sweat.

And back to the Boa discussion - the tech database actually doesn't lie. The Boa actually handles better than Ursa. I have tested those two intensively on Normal on Slaying the Revana, and the Ursa felt more like brick. Any hard turns were an abstraction, which was especially visible while trying to maneuver just outside Ravana's hull. I just kept hitting it ^^ Also, Boa was harder to hit for Ravana's turrets, while Ursa was mercilessly slayed.

Boa looks ugly for many people (however I actually like it ;D), and it's anti-fighter capabilities are well poor. However, who is such a wacko to dogfight in a heavy bomber ?! The turret on Ursa or Medusa *never* ever killed a single fighter for me, and dogfighting felt like a sumo fighter trying to catch a cockroach :p It was futile, to say the least. From canon/logical point of view, the designers never even dreamed that somebody would be insane enough to dogfight in their designs. Check out the modern bombers - they are big, sluggish and defenceless - attacking such targets is a fighter pilot's dream. Despite what the game shows us, pilots are NOT supposed to be one-men armies :p
Lieutenant Commander Richard "Viper" Pred

 

Offline blowfish

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Unless the tables lie, the Boanerges is, in fact, not any more maneuverable than the Ursa.  It does feel like it handles better though.  This is probably an illusion, maybe the eye point on the boanerges is farther from its center, so you appear to move farther when you turn.  I have observed a similar effect when changing the field of view, so I think this is likely.

 

Offline Bob-san

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I hate the Boa with a passion. That thing handles much worse than my beloved Ursa and has a fraction the survivability. Now the Ursa... 5 guns, 3 large secondary banks, excellent hull, excellent shielding, and a top-mounted Kayser.

If you don't know how to get a kill from an Ursa's turret, you're flying them all wrong. My favorite is flying an Ursa against an agile fighter (Ulysses). The trick is to keep your prey directly above you. Maneuver by using the POV pointed up and try to keep the fighter directly above you at all times. The AI is quite stupid... they fly slow and will continue circling with you. That circling means, even on Insane, that your Kayser tears through their shields and hull. When one ship is down, another ship or ten always wants to tango. Target the nearest above you and keep em in sight again... most of the time all of the ships try to circle you or come in for pointless "runs" (about 70% of the time they start orbiting you too) that barely damage your shields. Running at 20-30 m/s is highly effective as well... leave your afterburners for missile evasion.
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GTSVA: With who...?
Nuke: chewbacca?
Bob-san: The Rancor.

 

Offline Polpolion

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That thing handles much worse than my beloved Ursa

Except it doesn't. They both have the same maneuverability.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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That thing handles much worse than my beloved Ursa

Except it doesn't. They both have the same maneuverability.

Another thing is that the Boanerges has a 5m/s velocity advantage over the Ursa...I think.

That turret on top of the Ursa was meant to fend off, not destroy, bombers.

Speaking of which...it seems that pilots who fly the Boanerges (or any other bomber with no turret) may really be better off in the long run, because they'll learn how to lob bombs, fend off attacks and get away from the blast zone relying solely on their flight skills. I believe that they have a slightly higher survival rate than pilots who fly a bomber with a turret (like myself).
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline Bob-san

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That thing handles much worse than my beloved Ursa

Except it doesn't. They both have the same maneuverability.

Another thing is that the Boanerges has a 5m/s velocity advantage over the Ursa...I think.

That turret on top of the Ursa was meant to fend off, not destroy, bombers.

Speaking of which...it seems that pilots who fly the Boanerges (or any other bomber with no turret) may really be better off in the long run, because they'll learn how to lob bombs, fend off attacks and get away from the blast zone relying solely on their flight skills. I believe that they have a slightly higher survival rate than pilots who fly a bomber with a turret (like myself).
The velocity difference is what makes the Boa maneuver worse... plus the off-center turning point. True, don't rely too much on the turret, but it's still highly effective to kill maneuverable AI fighters. Though they turn at the same rate, the Ursa's lower normal speed lets it make slightly tighter turns.
NGTM-1R: Currently considering spending the rest of the day in bed cuddling.
GTSVA: With who...?
Nuke: chewbacca?
Bob-san: The Rancor.