Author Topic: Yet another doomed Capella theory!  (Read 19398 times)

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Naahh, this theory is doomed because here comes mine (and it's not a long @$$ story because it's already past 1:00 AM here):

The Shivans were scared s**tless, and the only hope they've seen to survive as a species was to jump to some really far away place. They decided to make a supernode by detonating a star, warping out and leaving a supernova behind to make sure they aren't followed untill they could destroy the supernode from the other side.

They also detonated Capella too early for many ships to either make it to the supernode, or charge their jump drives to warp out, because they simply ran out of time.

Whoever or whatever was the reason they were running remains a mystery for the GTVA, because we didn't have any units in Gamma Draconis to find out once the Shivans evac'd their fleet to Capella.
I profoundly dislike this theory, for the same reason I think giving monsters human motivations and drives diminishes their terrifying nature.  Attributing fear to the Shivans is one step on the path to humanizing their actions, and before you know it we're all holding hands and singing Kumbaya. 

Obviously that was an exaggeration, but nothing we've watched them do suggests fear is a motivating force behind their actions, and for all we know they aren't even capable of feeling that emotion.  I'm trying to remember all the missions in the game and briefing descriptions, and I can't for the life of me recall a single time that Shivans have ever retreated, even when they're obviously losing.  That could just be mission design of course, but it helps to make them that much more of an unknown malevalent force in the universe.

Saying they were motivated by fear chips away at the mystique, and diminishes their alien nature.  I can't countenance any theory that does that.
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That is the best first post I have ever seen.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
What? You saying having feelings of any kind is too human for aliens?

I dunno. I don't think shivans being afraid of something makes them less alien. It depends of what they fear.
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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
What? You saying having feelings of any kind is too human for aliens?

I dunno. I don't think shivans being afraid of something makes them less alien. It depends of what they fear.
That can work in a narrative, but in order to make the appropriate impact you have to first demonstrate that this terrifying opponent (in this case Shivans) is essentially completely fearless and then make it clear that something you haven't seen yet is capable of scaring something that otherwise doesn't know the meaning of fear.  Then the reader/viewer/player gets to wonder what could possibly be worse then the devil they know.

Maybe [V] meant to do that in a sequel, but they certainly didn't in FS2.  There isn't anything to suggest they were running away, so the whole "running from the boogeyman" does indeed diminish them, because that leaves it up to fan speculation to produce said boogeyman, and I've yet to hear one single idea anyone has proposed that could fit the bill.  None of the "forces behind the Shivans" or "things fighting the Shivans" have been the least bit scary, they're all just pale shadows of the Shivans themselves, or a big fat scifi cliche.

Come up with something that can top the Shivans and maybe then I'll listen to the "Shivans are cowards" theory.  Until then, it's, in the words of Eric Cartman, "Hella lame".
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 02:21:32 am by Marcus Vesper »
Everything is better with monkeys.  Even pie.

That is the best first post I have ever seen.

 
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
It would make an interesting 'parallel' storyline. Let's go back 8000 years: the Shivans are pawning the Ancients. They're fighting in the nebula at the moment. Desperate to save their lives, the Ancients finally turn off the Knossos in GDrax (Why did they wait so long? Perhaps special resources were needed, or they had to do it between the Shivan attacks, I don't know...). However, a tiny part of the Shivan task force has already got through, and that was enough to destroy the Ancients. Cut off from the rest of their race, these Shivans float around for 8000 years, until they detect intense subspace usage again. That small part of the old Shivan fleet is now known as the Lucifer fleet.
During the Great War, a part of the Terran fleet gets cut off from the rest as well (the majority of our fleet was in Sol, it was about the only system the Lucifer did not sweep clean). The Shivan cut-off part gets destroyed.
In the meantime, something is scaring the Shivan main fleet quite a lot. They build Sathanas transports, designed to evacuate all Shivans to some far-off place. But they can't find a star meeting their needs. When Bosh re-activates the Knossos in GDrax, a Shivan recon cruiser comes through, sees that GDrax doesn't meet their needs, and proceeds to Capella. There, it encounters the GTC Vigilant, and destroys it (they're xenocidal, after all). Before it gets destroyed by the Chartage and the Dahshor, it 'scans' the Capella star, and sends a message to the other Shivans: 'This is the star we've been looking for'. Immediately, the Saths converge on GTVA space (one was probably stationed closer than the others), while the bulk of the Shivan fleet -which could be manned by robots- remains behind to buy them time. Only a few ships escort the Saths to Capella. The Saths jump to some far-off place, closing the door behind them. The other Shivan ships, unable to use the supernode, remain behind to try and eliminate all witnesses. During the Second Shivan Incursion, a significant chunk of the GTVA fleet (the cut-off part) gets destroyed as well.
Dare I say it - FS3 would hardly involve any Shivans: they're destroyed by the Capella explosion and/or by that which they were running from. (We would have re-opened the Sol-DS node in between.) Instead, we would meet this huge enemy even the Shivans couldn't defeat, and they would chase us all over known space, just as they had done with the Shivans. The Vasudans probably get completely annihilated. GTVA Command is desperate. All humans retreat to Sol, closing the door behind them (=blowing up the node).
The trilogy would end as the story once started: Earth will always remain isolated.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I don't like the whole "Shivans are running from a bigger enemy" theory to be honest. It's been done so many times before, especially in REALLY REALLY big campaigns that never get finished.

  

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
They could be running from...the transcendant :lol:...something scary in a way other than "my plasma gun is bugger"..something THEY can't grasp or know how to fight.

We f'course defeat him..with a wing of priest exorcizing demons ;7
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Offline Snail

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
something scary in a way other than "my plasma gun is bugger"..something THEY can't grasp or know how to fight.

Yeah, good idea.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Since some people might not have seen it. Here's one that keeps the Shivans strange. :D
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Offline Snail

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Ah yes, that's one of my favorite theories, other than mine. Freaky, but cool, and well thought-out.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I agree, I've always liked that one.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Since some people might not have seen it. Here's one that keeps the Shivans strange. :D

Personally, I hate it. With a passion.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
The perfect outcome from the 3 of you then. If you'd liked it then we'd obviously need a rewrite. :p
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Offline Snail

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Personally, I hate it. With a passion.

You seem to hate everything that doesn't come from your own ass imagination. :p

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Personally, I hate it. With a passion.

You seem to hate everything that doesn't come from your own ass imagination. :p

No, I just have this hard to explain, almost on a atomic level revulsion to energy-based life forms. It's like a reflex.


Quote
The perfect outcome from the 3 of you then. If you'd liked it then we'd obviously need a rewrite.

Keep on truckin'..I mean, attacking. The second you're not attacking me I know I'm doing something wrong.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
No, I just have this hard to explain, almost on a atomic level revulsion to energy-based life forms. It's like a reflex.

So you hated Blue Planet, huh. Poor, poor soul.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
You seem to have a revulsion to a lot of the science fiction concepts that don't fall into the very 'soft', limited arena of stuff like Freespace.

Any particular reason? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

Also curious to hear what you think of the relativistic-kill-vehicle idea for taking out Sathanas juggernaughts in that other thread.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I dislike super-high tech and nigh-impossible concepts that defy reason. I like my universes believable.

I barely digested the FS2 supernova, mostly because it was handled far better than in other sci-fi.
Like in Star Trek they shoot a small missile at the sun.. *boooom*
Heck, in FS2 at least they made it look like it's a really difficult and time consuming matter. 100's of ship..days of blasting the sun. And it even then it appeared to go out of control.


AS to the RKV...the question is how much energy one would require to accelerate it to such super speeds. The capitals in FS don't seem to be going very fast.
The second problem it actually hitting anything with it, and timing it with the Sathanas would be the biggest problem. What if it takes days for  the chunk to accelerate to relativistic speeds? You can't predict the location of a sath 15 minutes in advance, let alone more.
It may be simpler to just blockade the node with hulks, asteroid and mines.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
You should read some hard SF -- Alastair Reynolds, Iain M. Banks, Vernor Vinge, Greg Benford. Those are very big ideas presented in ways that are not only scientifically plausible but maybe probable. In some cases they provide the equations and mathematics behind the ideas.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Not to mention reading What Does A Martian Look Like in which they mention life forms not to dissimilar to the Starborn living on stars.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Not to mention reading What Does A Martian Look Like in which they mention life forms not to dissimilar to the Starborn living on stars.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .. I said I like my sci-fi believable.
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