[karajorma]

Well that basically explains why the Starborn enjoy playing The Great Game so much in MindGames then doesn't it?

[IPAndrews]

My capella theory: a few hundred light years away the rest of the Sathanas fleet were hanging out with the universe's biggest marshmellow.

[Marcus Vesper]

Not all of them do but it is a reoccurring theme. You do seem to have read the ones that are worst for it though.

I would highly recommend reading Protector if you read nothing else.

Oh and the story you can't remember is called Rammer IIRC.

I checked last night when I got home and it was A World Out of Time, though the protagonist is in fact a rammer, so you weren't off by all that much.  I actually own that one somehow, I'm recalling getting a stack of old books from one of my relatives when I was a kid; I don't think they had actually read that book themselves or they most likely wouldn't have given it to me, heh.

[karajorma]

I checked. The short story Rammer was novelised into A World Out of Time. I've only ever read the short story version.

[TrashMan]

I'm back...and let me say:

*clap, clap, calp*

Bravo! Why to go flexing those virtual muscles AFTER I stated that I won't discuss life on stars further and that I'm leaving the thread.
And for trolling of all things.
Sure, a guy posts a theory..people comment. I comment (stating I dislike the X part because I believe in Y) The you Kaj (and your tag-alongs) jump on my post like a starved mean on a 5-star dinner, dissecting it, analyizing it and marching on your holy quest to prove me wrong.

What does what I believe have to do with the topic? Not much. So why even go into it?
Partially it is my fault, I should have known better than to answer but I do get a bit defensive when people hop on me like that.

So why going into a lengthy discussion at all? I tried to be brief and I tried to end the discussion right there (It was off-topic anyway).. and I'm the Troll?
Ok, I can live with that..If you ban yourself and others, since you were trolling as much as I was, if not more.

But it's not the ban that bothers me really (I actually got some work on my paper done, given that I didn't sped hours on HLP..I should actually thank you for that).
What bothers me is your obsession to correct me.
So you think I'm ignorant, wrong or stupid..K, great, I'm happy for you if that makes you happy.
But why do you feel the need to try and "correct me" every other thread?
I'm asking you...no, I'm begging you - in the future, if you spot something in my comments you deem incorrect - leave me in my "ignorance". Let's not de-rail the whole thread and fall into a discussion loop (this goes for everyone).
Surely you have better things to spend your time on... at least I hope you do.

[Kie99]

[TrashMan]

And with this I say farewell...

*walks away*

[Snail]

And with this I say farewell...

*walks away*

What, you're leaving HLP?

[karajorma]

Bravo! Why to go flexing those virtual muscles AFTER I stated that I won't discuss life on stars further and that I'm leaving the thread.

Your attitude on this thread was the last in a long line of infractions. I did warn you about it earlier and I did point out that other admins were as sick as I was of you doing it.

Sure, a guy posts a theory..people comment. I comment (stating I dislike the X part because I believe in Y) The you Kaj (and your tag-alongs) jump on my post like a starved mean on a 5-star dinner, dissecting it, analyizing it and marching on your holy quest to prove me wrong.

You're entitled to have a different opinion all you want Trashman. But when you start saying "I'm right and you're wrong" or better yet, "I'm right and renowned experts in the field are wrong" you'd better be prepared to prove it.

What bothers me is your obsession to correct me.

Funny how Marcus Vesper, Snail, Mobius and all the people who also commented on this thread also seem to have the same obsession then. Even when I deliberately stayed out of some threads this week to see if you'd do the same with them I found exactly the same problem happening in my absence.

Maybe you should ask yourself what it is about the way you post that makes people want to correct you?

But why do you feel the need to try and "correct me" every other thread?
I'm asking you...no, I'm begging you - in the future, if you spot something in my comments you deem incorrect - leave me in my "ignorance". Let's not de-rail the whole thread and fall into a discussion loop (this goes for everyone).

Shall I point out that most of the times I've corrected you it's because someone else posted a theory and you came along and corrected them telling them that it was unlikely or impossible?

If someone else wants to post their theory and you want to comment on it fine. If you want to help them refine it again that's fine. If you're going to tell them that their theory is unlikely or impossible you'd better be prepared to defend that point of view. And if you're not, bow out gracefully.

[TrashMan]

Your attitude on this thread was the last in a long line of infractions. I did warn you about it earlier and I did point out that other admins were as sick as I was of you doing it.

Attitude?
Methinks you're reading into things that aren't there.

You're entitled to have a different opinion all you want Trashman. But when you start saying "I'm right and you're wrong" or better yet, "I'm right and renowned experts in the field are wrong" you'd better be prepared to prove it.

I state that I THINK or I BELIEVE this or that. My personal opinion or belief on a matter doesn't instantly mean the other person is wrong.
Comments are meant to be short, I'm not about to turn a comment into a philospohical discussion. Defending a theory merits a separate thread, it's not something I want to do in other peoples threads. 

Funny how Marcus Vesper, Snail, Mobius and all the people who also commented on this thread also seem to have the same obsession then. Even when I deliberately stayed out of some threads this week to see if you'd do the same with them I found exactly the same problem happening in my absence.

Maybe you should ask yourself what it is about the way you post that makes people want to correct you?

I mentioned the tag-alongs, haven't I?
What about my post makes certain people want to correct me? Probably a different opinion they don't like. Either that or the tone of my post isn't clear enough, so it left to intepretation so someone may find it insulting or something.

Speaking of which this is off-topic (again) and I already said I'm leaving this thread so..

ON-TOPIC:
The part of the Lucifer as a central hive mind. I'd say FS1  and FS2 strongly suggest they do have some very centralized command structure. They had a command ship in FS1. But where is it in FS2? Hidden maby? Or could the Comm Nodes have something to do with it?

[Snail]

ON-TOPIC:
The part of the Lucifer as a central hive mind. I'd say FS1  and FS2 strongly suggest they do have some very centralized command structure. They had a command ship in FS1. But where is it in FS2? Hidden maby? Or could the Comm Nodes have something to do with it?

IMO, the FS2's command ship was probably just one of the Sathanas juggernauts since we don't see anything bigger... Or are not told of anything bigger...

[TrashMan]

Or they didn't have a on-site command...Maybe the SOC destruction of the comm nodes did mess up the shivan plans near the end.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Or they didn't have a on-site command...Maybe the SOC destruction of the comm nodes did mess up the shivan plans near the end.

That's a good one. It would explain why the Shivans didn't come after us. Detonating a star could be the Shivan way of locking an area, a pre-programmed order in case their command structure falls away...

I have read this theory somewhere not long ago, but I can't remember where. Only now I realize it's quite a good one...

[Snail]

It explains why they were so heavily guarded.

[perihelion]

Personally, I don't think so.  This is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but Shivan behavior to me speaks of a highly decentralized command structure.  They tend to act as one, and they don't function that well independently.  You can make arguments for a central "queen of the hive" type command ship, but...

Okay, actually, this is just a pet peeve of mine.  Remember the first few episodes involving the Borg in ST:TNG, they were so decentralized that they essentially had no vulnerabilities.  There was no central command to take out.  The only real exploitable vulnerability they had was their interconnectedness.  Disrupt that, and then you cause problems, but other than that there was no leader, no hierarchy, no one member any more important than any of the others.  The Borg as a race seemed to exist as a singular collective consciousness, it's individual bodies no more important than individual neurons in a human brain.

Then they went and screwed it all up by saying, "Oh yeah, but now there's this Borg Queen that's actually running it all."  Was I the only person who thought that was totally lame and made them completely not frightening anymore?  The writers went and freaking humanized the Borg.  WTF??

Same thing with the Shivans.  If they do rely so heavily on a central command structure, that is a very obvious vulnerability that makes them far less terrifying.  With a completely decentralized enemy, it doesn't matter which ship you blow up.  The "orders," so to speak, will just keep on coming in.  The Sathanas is just another "big ship."  A temporary tactical loss.  The rest of the Shivans will not be cut off from their "command and control" unless you somehow manage to disrupt their communications themselves.

I'm not sure if there is enough (or indeed, any) evidence to substantiate this as a valid theory, but it feels more satisfying to me.

[karajorma]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. First Contact was a good movie but it ruined the Borg completely by destroying the one thing that made them so truly terrifying in the earlier episodes we saw them in.

As for the Shivans, it's a canon fact that they were less organised after the destruction of the Lucifer but if you want another explanation other than a Shivan C&C on board how about simply saying that the Lucifer was the equivalent of a Shivan Comm Node and it provided the link between the thousands of Shivans attacking the GTVA and the billions or more back in Shivan space. With the link gone the processing power of those left in GTVA space was diminished and so they weren't able to organise as well as before.

If that's the case then most likely the Shivans learnt their lesson from that before FS2 and there isn't any central node to take out now.

[Snail]

IMO the Shivans might have backup hives to stop them from losing organization if one hive is destroyed. So it's sort of like a feudal system.

[Marcus Vesper]

What bothers me is your obsession to correct me.

Funny how Marcus Vesper, Snail, Mobius and all the people who also commented on this thread also seem to have the same obsession then. Even when I deliberately stayed out of some threads this week to see if you'd do the same with them I found exactly the same problem happening in my absence.

Maybe you should ask yourself what it is about the way you post that makes people want to correct you?

I can't help myself: It's the spelling.  See, you're at the magic point between perfection and utter-anarchy-that-makes-your-eyes-bleed where you just know the poster is capable of better then they're actually doing, so it nags at you when obvious mistakes in otherwise correctly spelled paragraphs crop up.  Well perhaps not you, I'm mildly obsessive compulsive and I've been known to spend more time correcting habitual and deliberate typos (on forums where I have moderator powers) then I do actually reading or posting (I've found that keeping myself colossally busy helps to keep that urge in check).

I literally can't check certain subforums on these boards because if I started, I'd have to keep checking them and reading every new post just to make the "New Post" indicators go away whether I'm remotely interested in the discussion or not, and I really don't have that kind of time......and I think you can see why my hands start twitching and I instinctively look for an edit button before settling with just arguing with you for catharsis.

I will go back and edit things I've typed over a year ago if I notice there was a mistake (and I have).  I properly punctuate and capitalize brief messages typed in the heat of battle during multiplayer games.  I think stickling is an Olympic sport.  And boy oh boy do I love to argue.  Trashman happends to have opinions I completely disagree with often enough to provide me with plenty of argument fodder.

And back on topic, I'm wondering why so called "Comm Nodes" are classified level omega, when horrendously powerful juggernauts only warrant upsilon level clearance.  They certainly had a rather large explosion radius, but the level of defense (practically non-existent, Shivans guarded gas mining operations more then those things) just strikes me as weird for something worthy of top secret classification.

[karajorma]

Well it's possible that they didn't guard them because they didn't expect the GTVA would be able to send anything through the Knossos that would survive long enough to destroy them.

[TrashMan]

Even after they knew of the Colossus? I'd say shivans are severely underestimating their enemy.