[Mika]

Since I have refused to do anything with the Source Code Project until someone can honestly call it complete, there is one question that has been bothering me: has the wingmen AI been improved in SCP? Why do I ask? This might be the call for me to start FREDding again. At least the wingmen should be able to fire Trebuchets and the rest of the missiles and use bombs more reasonably, ie. not firing them from kilometers away. And they should be able to cope with the flak much better as this tends to be one of the defenses they cannot really compete against. Maybe a command to automatically destroy any AAA-beams or flak cannons could be added?

I tested a few self-constructed missions where player is penalized if he loses wingman/wingmen, even though they are doable, I find the general difficulty level quite high. Not a bad thing necessarily, but it cannot be scaled down. But on the other hand, I like the idea. "If you can't then you suck." Instead of making wingmen invulnerable at some point, I'd like them to get destroyed when it happens. Too bad that currently it is too often and will make them look like incompetent idiots while Alpha 1 is screaming "Stop dying you cowards!" or "You can't possibly be that stupid!" or "What the hell is so difficult in avoiding those beams/flak/missiles/enemy projectiles!"

Mika

[FUBAR-BDHR]

You can use the special hits to make them harder to kill without making them invulnerable.  I think there are also options now for ordering the firing of secondaries at specific subsystems.  Not sure if they work correctly yet though.     It might take some doing but you should be able to make the AI work better and survive longer.  My suggestion is to get the latest version and give it a try. 

Oh and if you want you can modify the AI table yourself to make it more to your liking.  I've never done any mods myself but from looking at some of the things it shouldn't be too hard to make some small changes.  Don't like the AI bombers firing at long range make a bomb for the AI with a shorter range.  Want them to be smarter add a godlike AI profile.

[karajorma]

Since I have refused to do anything with the Source Code Project until someone can honestly call it complete

Then you'll never do anything. Give up now.

There's no such thing as complete with something like the SCP. Only the point when the last coder gives up/dies.

[Turey]

There's no such thing as complete with something like the SCP. Only the point when the last coder gives up/dies.

It'd only take a knife and a couple of plane tickets. 

[karajorma]

You volunteering to go into the light first?

[General Battuta]

Seriously, Mika, you're missing out.

[Mika]

I don't know about the SCP. Visual upgrade didn't struck me as important, and for this reason I haven't chosen SCP yet. I always thought that the AI upgrade would be the priority number one for me. About the solution you gave, I'm not sure if I could do the things with simple table changes.

For human player, if I remember correctly, the bomb locking can only be done when the bomb is in range. Does this happen for the computer also? If so, this would bring the bombers too close, since they will proceed towards the capital ship without being able to launch the weapons, until lock is achieved. Then the correct bombing distance would depend on the ship you are facing!

So would it be possible to lock before launch, and let AI decide when the probability of hitting is good enough? Actually, this would be fun for missiles also. Any missile could be shot from much longer distance in head-to-head situations. Trebuchet range 5 km? Now double that if the enemy is approaching with full burners! This would make it more difficult to hit a retreating opponent further than 2.5 km away but I think this is implemented somehow already.

Also, the command to search and destroy all and any AAA-beams and flak cannons (in a specific ship, preferably) would be really nice, but I wouldn't want it to happen automatically if a capital ship turret happened to slash a wingman. Keep the formation until I say otherwise!

I haven't checked through the AI tables of FS2. Where could I find them from FS2 main directory?

Mika

[Mika]

Ah, forgot one thing which I always thought as strange. The wingmen could this time also communicate with each other who will be firing which target, so that the firing is not concentrated to a single target (an overkill in most cases) unless instructed so. Of course player doesn't need to hear about this, or know about this. This would conserve missiles.

Mika

[Polpolion]

Could the SCP make a "Take down targeted subsystem" command?

[Retsof]

It's already there, it's number 4 in the command list.

[Polpolion]

Really?

[blowfish]

Yes.  Target the subsystem you want destroyed, and press something like C-3-4.  Any wingmen you ordered will now try to destroy that subsystem.  I can't guarantee they will do a very good job of it, but if you get all of your wingmen on one subsystem, it will usually go down pretty quick.

[achtung]

Wasn't a "Destroy Targeted Subsystem" command in FS1 too?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I believe so.  It's in something like the second training mission.

[Cobra]

Duh, it's in both.

[IceFire]

Yep the target subsystem command was in (the earliest I remember anyways) the Descent: FreeSpace Demo Beta (first time I ever got a chance to play).  So its been a feature pretty much since the start.  Against most subsystems and in a group it makes your wingman a surgical strike machine.

[Koth]

Well, most of the time it makes my wingmen fly in circles, crash into the target and and then they die one by flak, enemy ships or aaaf.

[karajorma]

IIRC that's because AFTER they take down the subsystem it makes them ignore the ship.

[Kosh]

I don't know about the SCP. Visual upgrade didn't struck me as important, and for this reason I haven't chosen SCP yet. I always thought that the AI upgrade would be the priority number one for me. About the solution you gave, I'm not sure if I could do the things with simple table changes.

The visual upgrade was the most obvious adjustment, but they also did other things that are a little below the radar. The enemy AI is actually better, everything just seems a bit harder than it was.

Also, the command to search and destroy all and any AAA-beams and flak cannons

There was a command in FS1 and FS2 called "disarm my target", that's what it does (including blob turrets)

[castor]

Since I have refused to do anything with the Source Code Project until someone can honestly call it complete..

How do you define "complete"? There have been completed releases already.