Author Topic: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation  (Read 7475 times)

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Offline eliex

  • 210
Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
 Okay . . . this is more of a civvy topic than anything.  :doubt:
So . . . nowadays, (2008) gems, gold, silver, metals are nearly the most expensive resources on earth.
 <as far as I know> Beams need gems:  Vasudans, topazes
                                                                Terrans, emeralds
                                                                 Shivans, rubies.

  When it really comes down to it . . . when the possibility that there aren't as many humans, vasudans whatever than there is on another terrestrial planet . . . when there are more resources than ever . . . when a system is independent of each other because all have all the equipment they need to survive . . . gas,metal,food . . .

  Where's the twist?
       
 

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation

 Whoops sorry . . . when I initially wrote the first post I accidentally pressed "enter" so I didn't manage to finish off what I going to write,
so you must have posted during my "fixing" period.  :D

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
I dunno what the hell beams need to work but it's very likely they don't use solid state crystals to concentrate energy.

Even the current most powerful lasers are gas based, and even though FS2 beams are most certainly not lasers (but instead some kind of superheated, contained particle beams), the use of solid crystals is doubtful.

They are likely ruddy expensive regardless, though. But could you clarify the purpose of this topic a little? :nervous:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Sorry, I removed my post after I saw that there was more (I though that I had not read part of it)... still confusing though.

My original comment was:

Quote
:wtf: WTF?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 08:08:07 pm by blowfish »

 

Offline Retsof

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
I suspect that most Freespace weapons are magnetically focused.
:::PROUD VASUDAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER:::

"Get off my forum" -General Battuta
I can't help but hear a shotgun cocking with this.

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation

 Like Halo MAC cannons?
Except it's beams not bullet rounds?  :)

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Some have theorized that Freespace beam weapons are plasma weapons held together by a magnetic field.  Plasma would dissipate it space otherwise.

  
Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
I dont see the beams having the same effect as plasma might, I think I remember my fighter getting knocked around a good deal, maybe they are some sort of particle accelerator??
Fat people are harder to kidnap :ha:

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
To be honest, I think we should give up on finding an explanation for beam cannons (or anything else for that matter) that fits with our understanding of physics.  It's just never going to happen.  The game was made for entertainment, not for accuracy of its physics.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Beam cannons are caused by creating a tear in subspace along a trajectory intersecting with the target ship. Plasma is then ejected from the blister into the tear. The area within this tear has less potential energy than the surrounding vacuum, causing the plasma to be channeled directly to the target vessel. In addition, the tear itself serves to degrade the hull, causing massive damage not possible with conventional weapons. Due to the inherent instability of shields within a subspace bubble, the tear also serves to cause beams to penetrate shields instantaneously.

The only problem is that use of such a weapon could possibly destroy the universe as we know it in the event of a malfunction, so their use would probably be highly restricted. But then again, maybe that's why ships aren't beam-free-alled by default. :p

(That is all made up on the spot and utterly non-canon)
-C

 
Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Beam cannons are caused by creating a tear in subspace along a trajectory intersecting with the target ship. Plasma is then ejected from the blister into the tear. The area within this tear has less potential energy than the surrounding vacuum, causing the plasma to be channeled directly to the target vessel. In addition, the tear itself serves to degrade the hull, causing massive damage not possible with conventional weapons. Due to the inherent instability of shields within a subspace bubble, the tear also serves to cause beams to penetrate shields instantaneously.

The only problem is that use of such a weapon could possibly destroy the universe as we know it in the event of a malfunction, so their use would probably be highly restricted. But then again, maybe that's why ships aren't beam-free-alled by default. :p

(That is all made up on the spot and utterly non-canon)

 :wtf:


To be honest, I think we should give up on finding an explanation for beam cannons (or anything else for that matter) that fits with our understanding of physics.  It's just never going to happen.  The game was made for entertainment, not for accuracy of its physics.

 :ick:

I like the "its just magic" answer of blowfish, but Im going to merge it with the  "dont play with it or try to understand it because it will make you go blind" answer from WMCoolmon...

and now we have... 
Its just magic son, dont play with it or try to understand it because it will make you go blind, and every time you do before then God will kill a kitten.



Fat people are harder to kidnap :ha:

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
The only problem is that use of such a weapon could possibly destroy the universe as we know it in the event of a malfunction

That's a high price to pay for a malfunction, but then again, if it happens, everyone will be too dead to care.

 

Offline Davros

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
well there isnt an unending supply of marmite and the shivans are quite partial to it...

 

Offline Retsof

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
What the heck is marmite?
:::PROUD VASUDAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER:::

"Get off my forum" -General Battuta
I can't help but hear a shotgun cocking with this.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
"Brings a tear of nostalgia to my eye" -Flipside
------------------------------------------
I'm an Apostolic Christian (Acts: 2:38)
------------------------------------------
Official Interplay Freespace Stories
Predator
Hammer Of Light - Omen of Darkness
Freefall in Darkness
A Thousand Years

 

Offline Mika

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Quote
I dunno what the hell beams need to work but it's very likely they don't use solid state crystals to concentrate energy.

Even the current most powerful lasers are gas based, and even though FS2 beams are most certainly not lasers (but instead some kind of superheated, contained particle beams), the use of solid crystals is doubtful.

They are likely ruddy expensive regardless, though. But could you clarify the purpose of this topic a little?

I think the most powerful lasers do not use gas, but are either Neodynium or Ytterbium based, or at least the power multiplying part is. The primary energy to start the population inversion is coming from Xenon flash sources. I'm guessing that the reason for this is related to the wavelengths of the powerful gas lasers, CO2 operates mostly at 10.6 µm and my gut says it takes a lot of effort to frequency double this to visible or ultraviolet wavelengths.

More interesting stuff about the current energy levels can be read from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_laser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility

Please note the size of the facility, if you think it in terms of the FS ships, I think one could make it fit into a 1 km long ship, or even cruiser level ships but that would require some participation from the Finns at least. Unfortunately, due to the component warming, the pulse repetition rate is somewhat lacking at this point, but maybe in the future...

The beams in FS are not lasers for two reasons:

1. Laser is not focused

Of course one could say that it is a Gaussian beam travelling in space with the minimum of waist located in the end of the other ship and that location can be easily adjusted with large pieces of adaptive optics. Speaking of which, lets estimate the minimum spot size on the hull of the enemy ship just for the heck of it: assuming 2 m aperture in the beam turret, and a enemy ship 2 kms away, the resulting F/# would be - according to paraxial optics - 1000.

Now the Airy radius (diffraction limit) is r = 1.22*lambda*1000, where we estimate the wavelength of the equivalent laser beam to be around 550 nm (green light) yielding Airy radius of 670 µm. Below this one cannot go, so we see that quite a lot of irradiance is wasted if it was a laser beam. Here Gaussian optics nature is ignored, but because the spread angle is quite small, the result should give a good initial guess.

Working through the the Gaussian beam model with 670 µm spot at the minimum waist, resulting aperture diameter would be 2.4 m. Someone else could calculate the irradiance level on the ship and then reverse-engineer the required power from the ship's reactor. I suppose the result will be gigantic.

2. The whole beam is visible to the eye.
This one is not easily explained away with any scattering property, one ought to see bright flashes of dust particles exploding along the beam. And no, there are not so many dust particles in space to make the beam visible in the way it is depicted. On the other hand, it would be cool to see those tingling particles along the beam in space (rest of the beam cannot be seen) and a extremely bright focal point in the hull of the enemy ship. Feel like SCPing anyone?

Of course, the industrial level lasers that are used for cutting are most commonly CO2 based.

Yeah, of my hobbies I like martial arts best and Optics comes as a close second.

Mika
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Beams aren't lasers, but lasers aren't lasers either.  Just give it up ... no one will ever find an explanation that satisfies everyone.  Freespace and physics just don't mix.

 

Offline Mika

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Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
I didn't write that seriously. All the Physics stuff is correct, otherwise simply: I know FS and Physics don't mix. It doesn't stop me from using it as a thought-exercise.

Mika
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Yeah, I think the stuff I've done on FS, coding, and HLP questions has helped me remember exact physics equations more than anything.

It's like America's Army, except instead of learning to save lives, you learn how to do physics. :p
-C

 

Offline eliex

  • 210
Re: Planetary Discovery Deteroiation
Hahahaha . . .

 Okay, sorry for butting in, though I thought to get back to the topic . . .
Like Capella, < it is a system isn't it? >

  But . . . *I think* most systems HAVE got - gas planets ( fuel) 
                                                                      asteroid fields ( metals, rocks, etc )
                                                                     terristrial planets ( somewhere for humans/vasudans whatever to live in
                                                                       water ???  :confused:

 So . . . what's the best bit about having inter-system trade (if there is) or is it all about good relations, happy people, diplomacy.