[jdjtcagle]

What do you think? Do you think it's possible?  Think of the 2nd mission of Freespace 1...  How in the world did they survive without some kind of base around?

Is there fan-based Vasudan asteroid bases out there?  How many Terrain bases are there?

We know that Terrans expected either a base or destroyer in the nebulae... maybe experience from the vasudans taught them so?

Opinions?

[Polpolion]

The only reason we thought there would be a base/destroyer in the nebula was because of all of the fighters there. And because of the probable cost, I doubt there are any non-mining asteroid bases.

[jdjtcagle]

Probably but doesn't that suggest that wherever fighters are located there must be a destroyer?  How can this be when the Taranis was the source of command for it's sector but yet no fighter bay for it's protection.

[Polpolion]

Because there was a destroyer somewhere in-system providing fighters for its escort?

[jdjtcagle]

Because there was a destroyer somewhere in-system providing fighters for its escort?

That doesn't add up...

When the Taranis first arrives in mission it attacks the HOL ship -> jumps out, we attack it before it leaves the system to re-supply.  It only has minimal fighter escort.  Surely a destroyer could help a cruiser out unless the destroyer is in the other system.  Which if that's the case then how did they survive that long without a somewhere to dock?  It doesn't make sense that a cruiser has more authority than a destroyer... maybe that had something to do with the term "sector".  We probably assume system means sector vise versa. 

All I'm getting at is that there must be a reasonable explanation for the appearance of so many fighters and no destroyer.  Shivan or Vasudan... There was never a threat of a Vasudan destroyer in the 2nd mission, they used the asteroids to hide...

[TrashMan]

Shivan fighters are capable of making system-system jumps. And shivans find it quite cozy in Zero-G. It's possible they can stay in their fighters for days.

Ergo, it's possible that the fighters jumped in system to escort the Taranis, and were headed back towards their destroyer for resupply later.

[jdjtcagle]

Shivan fighters are capable of making system-system jumps. And shivans find it quite cozy in Zero-G. It's possible they can stay in their fighters for days.

Ergo, it's possible that the fighters jumped in system to escort the Taranis, and were headed back towards their destroyer for resupply later.

That's an excellent point

But what of the Vasudans?

[Polpolion]

Because there was a destroyer somewhere in-system providing fighters for its escort?

That doesn't add up...

When the Taranis first arrives in mission it attacks the HOL ship -> jumps out, we attack it before it leaves the system to re-supply.  It only has minimal fighter escort.  Surely a destroyer could help a cruiser out unless the destroyer is in the other system.  Which if that's the case then how did they survive that long without a somewhere to dock?  It doesn't make sense that a cruiser has more authority than a destroyer... maybe that had something to do with the term "sector".  We probably assume system means sector vise versa. 

All I'm getting at is that there must be a reasonable explanation for the appearance of so many fighters and no destroyer.  Shivan or Vasudan... There was never a threat of a Vasudan destroyer in the 2nd mission, they used the asteroids to hide...

What are you talking about, "a cruiser has more authority than a destroyer"? The Shivans probably didn't bother sortieing the destroyer because it wasn't worth putting the destroyer out in the open like that; it's better to just send a few wings of fighters. And it's possible for fighters to piggy-back into an inter-system subspace node with the cruiser. IIRC it's even in the tech description of something. It' also possible for the fighters to dock with the cruiser, one at a time, though.

And what are you saying about the Vasudans?

[Prophet]

Why would they need a base? Freespace fighters have magical reactor producing endless amounts of pixiedust for both the ships power needs and subsystem repairs. And the pilot can live on recycled pudding for weeks if need be. Only thing they would need a base for is hull repairs and munitions resupply. Except if the pilots are very careful...

We saw, was it two, destroyers accompanying the Lucifer. Maybe one or two more we didn't see. A destroyer weren't in system, but sortied a fighter escort for Taranis from some other system. Shivan fighters do seem to have some uber jumpdrives afterall, judging from the many mission they have been seen using a node. Both FS1 and FS2. A Shivan destroyer doesn't even have to be in the contested system. It can provide fighter and bomber support trough nodelines.

[jdjtcagle]

I see more clearly now from the shivans side of things...

    There have been a number of recent attacks by the Vasudans in the Betelgeuse system. They have been making strikes on Terran convoys en route to the Betelgeuse-Antares jump point. The Vasudan attacks have been stages from a nearby asteroid field.
    Terran intelligence is certain that there are four small attack wings responsible for the attacks on our convoys. There have also been reports of a Vasudan ace piloting one of the Seth class fighters in the area.

Here's the 2nd mission in Fs1...
Which takes place in the Betelgeuse system.  Now how do they live constantly in the asteroid field?

no pixiedust... 

[Gamma_Draconis]

I suppose the fighters were hiding out till a Vasudan destroyer could arrive and evacuate them. It still doesn't explain why they have 100% hull integrity despite doing "raids" on Terran convoys. It would have made more sense if the pilot was sent on a patrol mission and end up having a little skirmish with the Vasudan wings doing their own patrol in the area.

[jdjtcagle]

Very well, I have nothing... I'm kinda convinced there MUST of been a destroyer, but there's still doubt...

[Prophet]

Well there were covert operations and spies and renegades as some missions suggested. Perhaps Vasudans had arranged for some support for their fighters. Like converted cargo containers or something similar. Small and easily transported. They wouldn't need much more than a pressurized container where to repair their ships. Maybe they enlisted some Terran help for getting it in to position. Or maybe they left it there the last time they had some control over the system.

The war had been going on for many, many years. And the situation was becoming desperate for both sides. I'm pretty much sure that whatever you can think of, Vasudans and Terrans thought it. And if at all possible, they would have done it. From converted cargo containers to blocking a node with junk.


Quite frankly, FS1 had a few plotholes. Thus I prefer the pixiedust explanation.

[jdjtcagle]

Like converted cargo containers or something similar. Small and easily transported. They wouldn't need much more than a pressurized container where to repair their ships. Maybe they enlisted some Terran help for getting it in to position.

Complete with microwaves and port-o-potties 

[Goober5000]

It's worth noting that the details of the FreeSpace universe were being fleshed out even while the missions were being created.  Originally there were going to be "a series of missions" between the CommandBrief cutscene and the capture of the Taranis that would consist of wearing down the Taranis's defenses.  This, coupled with the mission briefing, leads me to believe that the Taranis was conceived as a much larger and more powerful vessel.

I imagine similar explanations would account for the other plot holes.  One of the reasons FS2 was more coherent was that already had a universe to work with.

[jdjtcagle]

That's a good view on the whole thing as well

[Kosh]

I suppose the fighters were hiding out till a Vasudan destroyer could arrive and evacuate them. It still doesn't explain why they have 100% hull integrity despite doing "raids" on Terran convoys. It would have made more sense if the pilot was sent on a patrol mission and end up having a little skirmish with the Vasudan wings doing their own patrol in the area.

It also doesn't totally explain how the Vasudans managed to get fighters into Ross 128, so far behind the front lines.

I'm pretty sure Vasudan fighters could make inter-system jumps, and actually in a mission we can see them doing this. The first mission after the Galatea is destroyed you can see several damaged Vasudan fighters leaving the Vasuda Prime node. And then there were the Macross's escort fighters....

[Prophet]

I'm pretty sure Vasudan fighters could make inter-system jumps, and actually in a mission we can see them doing this. The first mission after the Galatea is destroyed you can see several damaged Vasudan fighters leaving the Vasuda Prime node. And then there were the Macross's escort fighters....

Another of those plotholes I mentioned... It is clearly stated later in FS1 that Terran and Vasudan fighters did not have this ability until it was developed conveniently in time to stop the Lucifer...

[Kosh]

As I recall, it only mentioned "our" as in "terran", it never said Vasudans couldn't (and it would be inconsistant if it did, since we see them jumping in and out of the system escorting the Macross).

[Prophet]

As I recall once the fighter sized inter-system technology was acquired it was said that it is installed on every Terran and Vasudan fighter in the fleet or something like that. It's a long time since I played FS1.

But if the Vasudans had the tech all along, it would have been a tremendous tactical advantage over the Terrans and I doubt the T-V war had dragged on as long as it did. And it is doubtful the Vasudans could have kept it a secret for so long. Terrans would have stolen the tech one way or another. And why make such a big deal out of it when the tech is discovered when its old news and Vasudans had it all along? Why would Terrans need Shivan fighters in order to make a breaktrough when Vasudans had the tech as you claim? And finally, why no one never ever mentions during FS1 that Vasudans actually have the tech all along?

Face it. screwed up with Vasudans using inter-system subspace fighters before their time.