[Kosh]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sentenced-to-death-afghan-who-dared-to-read-about-womens-rights-775972.html

A young man, a student of journalism, is sentenced to death by an Islamic court for downloading a report from the internet. The sentence is then upheld by the country's rulers. This is Afghanistan – not in Taliban times but six years after "liberation" and under the democratic rule of the West's ally Hamid Karzai.

Looks like we did a great job bringing "freedom" and "liberty" to Afghanistan. Maybe we shouldn't have tried to take it away from the commies in the 80's after all........

[BlackDove]

Like "freedom" and "liberty" had anything to do with it.

A lol to you sir.

[karajorma]

400+ American troops dead, no idea how many Brits, other nationalities and civilians and the only change we've brought about is that they can now fly kites and race pigeons without being executed.

Well done!

[MP-Ryan]

Update:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/lifeline-for-pervez-afghan-senate-withdraws-demand-for-death-sentence-777188.html

[BlackDove]

Only because it got international traction.

This is business as usual when the rest of the world doesn't care, which is the other 364 days a year.

[jdjtcagle]

see media isn't always a bad thing

[NGTM-1R]

Only because it got international traction.

This is progress, if you consider the Taliban wasted those stone Buddhas despite international outcry.

Not much, but it is progress.

[Kosh]

I still think we can do better

[Flipside]

We can always do better.

[Fearless Leader]

The Taliban, or even Al Quida are not the problems, they are symptoms of the radical Islam sects that run that part of the world.

[Kosh]

We can always do better.

Considering how little effort has been made especially in recent years I think we can certainly try.

[Fearless Leader]

We can always do better.

Considering how little effort has been made especially in recent years I think we can certainly try.

Lack of effort?
Its hard to rebuild a country when they are shooting at you

[Rictor]

Only because it got international traction.

This is progress, if you consider the Taliban wasted those stone Buddhas despite international outcry.

Not much, but it is progress.

Actually, in that particular case I think it might have been because of the international outcry. I've read an interview with Mullah Omar where he basically summarized it as "There are people starving in the streets and all you people care about is some stone statues? Fine then, we'll blow them up and see how you like it."

Not that I support that position, of course. But what people don't seem to want to understand is that the Afghan population, including women, is culturally far closer to the Taliban than they are to the West. A few educated, Westernized activists do not alter the fact that it's a conservative Muslim country that has been highly paternalistic and socially rigid for milllenia.

[IceFire]

This is where I start to loose my ability to be understanding but the honest truth is that if the Afgani's want to bring their country out of decades of civil war and oppressive governments they have to take several very difficult steps forward towards becoming a modernized country.  This doesn't meant they should have a McDonalds at every corner but they really do need to help themselves get out of this turmoil.  Sentencing a student to death for reading an article about womens rights is not in the right direction and I don't see any two ways about that one.

They have the support and the help of the international community right now and we've got countries with soldiers and humanitarian workers on the ground trying to make this happen but the solution will either come from within or it won't.  Its up to them collectively as a nation.  Short sightedness like this will not get them anywhere.

[Rictor]

We are projecting - believing that what we would want is what they want. I think that what most of them want is decent jobs and for the trash to be picked up every once in a while. Prosperity and human rights/individual liberty are not related in the minds of your average Ahmad Q. Khan. At some point, the fact must be confronted that liberal democracy is not a very high priority on anyone's list over there, whether it's the people or the government. At best, they don't care, and at worst they want Shariah with a nice smiley face to keep the donors happy.

[Kosh]

We are projecting - believing that what we would want is what they want. I think that what most of them want is decent jobs and for the trash to be picked up every once in a while. Prosperity and human rights/individual liberty are not related in the minds of your average Ahmad Q. Khan. At some point, the fact must be confronted that liberal democracy is not a very high priority on anyone's list over there, whether it's the people or the government. At best, they don't care, and at worst they want Shariah with a nice smiley face to keep the donors happy.

So you somehow think this is ok? That's basically saying "they're muslims, so they don't want modernity".

Not that I support that position, of course. But what people don't seem to want to understand is that the Afghan population, including women, is culturally far closer to the Taliban than they are to the West. A few educated, Westernized activists do not alter the fact that it's a conservative Muslim country that has been highly paternalistic and socially rigid for milllenia.

And look at the result. Now they are poor and weak. Icefire is right, they should try to make their country better, but too many can't be bothered. Blindly following dogma or lining their pockets is too important to them. 

[Rictor]

So you somehow think this is ok? That's basically saying "they're muslims, so they don't want modernity".

More like "they're Muslim, paternalistic and socially conservative so they don't want liberalism". There are many other aspects of modernity which I'm sure are awesome to your average Afghan, but it's no use pretending that they have the social mores of Holland. And being Muslim is only a part of it; many other societies are just as rigid while adhering to different faiths (rural India, parts of Africa etc).

Historically, it's taken a secular dictator, like Ataturk or Reza Shah, to push through modernization against the wishes of the people. How many people would be comfortable with doing that?

[Wobble73]

Look at Turkey, there's a Muslim country embracing modernity!

[Flaser]

Look at Turkey, there's a Muslim country embracing modernity!

A country that was created by a secular dictator.
Self-goal!

[Rictor]

Look at Turkey, there's a Muslim country embracing modernity!

Embracing at the point of a gun for 50+ years. And as recent events have shown, it's not at all certain how firm that embrace actually is. Despite all that, Turkey is still a very socially conservative, nationalistic country, even if the religious manifestation of that conservativism is usually kept at bay.