[Mobius]

@HB: You don't speak French, do you? Not the same at all. French is a derivative of Latin, as is Spanish. They are sister languages, although I believe that Spanish is closer to Latin.

The closest one is Italian, followed by Spanish/Portuguese and then French(I won't mention the others like Romanian) mostly due to the pronunciation.


Ah, I tried to learn Quenya. I was able to write short sentences three years ago.

[Wanderer]

And i thought Quenya was easy to learn

[Mika]

Poi dalla = then you <singular> give her, refered to the vag**a, it's a way to say "have sex". "Then have sex"(only for females, of course).

Poi dalle = then you <singular> give them(females, refered to "botte"), it's a way to say "have a fight".

I'm pretty sure you cannot pronounce pöydällä or pöydälle in a form I would recognise. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet that I could pronounce Italian words either.

Ich magst dritten bier SCHNELL! Lawl you're all cool FreeSpacey peeps'

Muhahahaa, I'm also posting under influence! Besides, you're one behind! Salute!

Is it the type of smoking used when making dishes like lox?

If I knew what lox was I could answer this one...

Oh and Herra, check the meaning of "keksi". You are missing one meaning which was used a lot more 50 years ago. I always wondered what the hell my father was talking about when he said keksi while working with wood.

[reverse psychology] Honestly, you foreigners could not really choose much harder language than Finnish when it comes to complexity or conjugations, or verbs changing to nouns and vice versa, with all the in-between layers. It is more like learning to speak Vasudan. Give it up. And now I'm speaking ex-cathedra. [/reverse-psychology]

Damn I hate that I have to write down the actual meanings of my messages, like you couldn't understand it between the lines?

Ah, Chinese might have some curious hidden meanings in the words, but as far as I have understood, the conjugation itself is not so difficult. The pronounciation might be.

Oh, I know nothing about Tolkien elvens, having never bothered to read the books. I only once saw the movie, and didn't think about the different elven dialects or languages. It was not important anyhow.

I need to read some Kalevala to get some good quotes which could be cited under influence...

Mika

[Jeff Vader]

Is it the type of smoking used when making dishes like lox?

If I knew what lox was I could answer this one...

I'm guessing salmon.

[Mobius]

And i thought Quenya was easy to learn

Poi dalla = then you <singular> give her, refered to the vag**a, it's a way to say "have sex". "Then have sex"(only for females, of course).

Poi dalle = then you <singular> give them(females, refered to "botte"), it's a way to say "have a fight".

I'm pretty sure you cannot pronounce pöydällä or pöydälle in a form I would recognise. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet that I could pronounce Italian words either.

You posted something about an Italian hearing that so I assumed the pronunciation is similar.

[Herra Tohtori]

Germanic languages have a lot of borrowed words from Latin and Greek - just like pretty much any language these days. That doesn't mean Germany would be derived from Latin. It isn't. With the same logic tou could claim that Latin was derived from Greek or Arabic, because there are a lot of Arabic or Greek origin words in Latin. Obviously this isn't the case any more than English is derived from Finnish because the words "sauna" and "puukko" are pretty much assimilated to English...

Both Germanic and Latinic languages are derived fron Proto-Indo-European language and belong to Indo-European languages. Neither derives from other, but they have influenced each other a lot. Actually, Germany does use some cases that are almost directly borrowed from Latin, whereas more original "Germanic" languages such as Norwegian, Islandic, Swedish and Danish don't. After all, Germanic languages came to Germany from the north, ie. Scandinavia.

English on the other hand is a true whore of Babylon in the sense that it rips off pretty much everything from anywhere. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

The basic structure comes from Germanic languages - after all, Old English or Anglo-Saxon language was the language of the saxon invaders from the mainland when they took a lot of the main island over from Celtic people. At thist stage, Celtic languages had a small influence on what we now know as English... but still, word order and bulk of the vocabulary came from Germanic language of Anglo-Saxon people. Later, Vikings and Normans brought a lot of Scandinavian re-influences to the English language. Then came the French, and a lot of the current spelling and much of the vocabulary comes from French (Latinic languages), as well as a lot of conjugation rules and stuff.

I'm not even going to mention all the other languages that English has assimilated or ripped vocabulary from...


And yeah, keksi is also the pole used to showe stocks of timber around in water while timber rafting them downstream... also, browser cookies are sometimes called keksi in Finnish IT jargon, although I'm not sure if the translation is the most necessary.


And salmon (like any other fish) can be made both hot smoked or cold smoked. The difference is that in hot smoking, the temperatures are high enough to really cook the food. In cold smoked salmon, the fish isn't really cooked... the temperatures are generally below 30 degrees Celcius, and the smoke just leaves it's taste on the fish, so it's more like smoke-flavoured sushi without fancy gourmet servings. The preservation of cold smoked fish is generally done by salting.

[Mobius]

I have never said that German and English derived from Latin!

[Herra Tohtori]

Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.

no it's not

It is

 

[Polpolion]

[Mobius]

I said "It is "

[Herra Tohtori]

Internet is a terrible media for sarcasm unless it's very skillfully done (and even then some people get it wrong), and your choice of smilie doesn't really make it clear if that was the case or not.

Thus I assumed that by "It is " you referred to the statement "Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there" with agreement.


So... did you mean what you wrote or not.

[Mobius]

I have never said it(and grammar's not an opinion, "said" is "said"). I have initially ignored the difference, that is all.

I stated before that German and English aren't Neo Latin languages...you're trying to make me admit the contrary

[Mika]

You posted something about an Italian hearing that so I assumed the pronunciation is similar.

Italian hearing? I think I didn't. It was about a small pronounciation mistake in the end of word; of course one has to know Finnish alphabets to know how to pronounce them. After that it is quite easy to pronounce anything in Finnish.

How would you pronounce Cannae or Pisae? I think for me it would sound like Khannee or Pisaa. Panna would be about the same as "panna" the church curse, with extended weight for n and weighted last a. But the real difference is in the pöytä-word, which will most certainly differ from poi dalle.

Puukko is assimilated in English? I had to check from Wiki, and indeed it is so. They even have sissipuukko in there! It is amazing what kind of heavy duty tool that is.

Now that I remember to correct one misconception about sauna, IT IS NOT ABOUT SEX. Especially in Asia I saw a lot of super saunas with women posing in several interesting positions. Using Finnish word in this context is a misnomer, it doesn't mean anything like that!

And salmon (like any other fish) can be made both hot smoked or cold smoked. The difference is that in hot smoking, the temperatures are high enough to really cook the food. In cold smoked salmon, the fish isn't really cooked... the temperatures are generally below 30 degrees Celcius, and the smoke just leaves it's taste on the fish, so it's more like smoke-flavoured sushi without fancy gourmet servings. The preservation of cold smoked fish is generally done by salting.

This is funny since some people in Lapland consider salmon as a mediocre fish. And pike is considered a replacement of wood that you would otherwise use to set up the campfire...

Ach, one should have an alchometer with his computer that would prevent posting when enjoying over 1 promille... strangely, doesn't seem to affect English too badly, while Finnish would start to suffer already. Make your conclusions about that also.

But this is a fun thread. A little bit of "my dad, your dad" is always welcome.

Mika

[Mobius]

"Pannaan pöydällä" - "Let's f**k on the table" (no need to explain)
"Pannaan pöydälle" - "Set it on the table" (about moving some crate)
Then imagine a Italian man saying this to a Finnish man when they are moving crates. Usually the result is hysteric sniggering from Finns part and they never answer if somebody asks what's so funny. They will probably only say that they understood what you meant.

I might have misenterpreted it, then...

[Herra Tohtori]

I have never said it(and grammar's not an opinion, "said" is "said"). I have initially ignored the difference, that is all.

Never said what exactly...? And what you mean by ignoring difference (what difference?  )?

Also, I can assure you that grammar is a matter of opinion. Public opinion. Because languages evolve, and language defines it's grammar - grammar doesn't define language. Grammar is just a tool that is used to describe the structures of a language - not the opposite (except in case of constructed languages). But we've had this discussion before, though, so no reason to bring that back up...

I stated before that German and English aren't Neo Latin languages...you're trying to make me admit the contrary [/i]

No, I'm trying to find out what you meant with the infamous "It is" line. By normal interpretation from context, it sure seems to me that you agreed to the claim that German derives from Latin. If there was some hidden meaning in it, please share some insight onto it.

[Mobius]

Depends. Grammar has rules everyone is free to ignore. Ignoring the rules doesn't mean changing them. I said that English and German aren't Neo Latin languages, where's the problem?

German grammar derives from Latin, I'd say... do you know how the German language was born? It had a particular birth. German has a tough grammar for a Germanic language.

[Herra Tohtori]

Depends. Grammar has rules everyone is free to ignore. Ignoring the rules doesn't mean changing them. I said that English and German aren't Neo Latin languages, where's the problem?

The problem is that you also most apparently agreed to Germany being derived from Latin. Either you contradicted yourself or are just being otherwise inarticulate.

And grammar isn't a collection of rules for speaking or writing. Rather it's a way to describe how the language works. For people who are learning a language, grammar is an invaluable tool for forming understandable sentences and interpreting the language, and are often used as "rules" in schools because they appare to be so. But that isn't really the case. With sufficient proficiency, a person doesn't need to think of grammar when writing or speaking. But if needed, they can describe the language they produce via tools offered by grammar.

German grammar derives from Latin, I'd say... do you know how the German language was born? It had a particular birth. German has a tough grammar for a Germanic language.

Yeah, I know that modern German as we know it didn't appear in "universal" form until during the 19th and 20th century. Before that, there have been various dialects, High German, Old German and who knows what. Undoubtedly Latin-speaking scholars (church) have affected the structures of German language to certain degree, but I still disagree with German grammar being derived from Latin.

Influence does not mean being derived from something. Germany is still a Germanic language first and foremost, but it is newer and more influenced by other language families than, say, Dutch or Icelandic, which are perhaps the oldest widely spoken North Germanic languages. Alongside Yiddish... which has been influenced by Hebrew et al.

[redsniper]

Spanish and Italian are the same.

[Grizzly]

Spanish and Italian are the same.

They're not!

[Jeff Vader]

Spanish and Italian are the same.

They're not!

Are too!