Author Topic: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq  (Read 16764 times)

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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
You still haven't answered the question of how does that make Gore or Kerry worse than Bush....
I personally didn't like Al Gore. Just something about him never struck me as right, even as a little kid. I don't know why, though I do have a basis for my more recent dislike of Gore. I think he's blowing the entire global warming and environmental disaster theme a bit out of proportion. Yeah he's right about some things, but he still spews too much hot air and seems to be focusing on personal profit over actual improvement. He seems to have taken a genuine issue as a fast trip to Hollywood and a popular topic in media. He may very well have been a better President than Bush--we don't know how different this world would be if 9/11 would have been under a Gore administration, versus a Bush administration.

As for Kerry, he always struck me as a fake. While he served in Vietnam, I think that he lied about some of what he did or how heroic he was. A lot of stories about war are blown out of proportion--and he seemed to want to exaggerate that story as well. One particular point I didn't like about his 2004 bid for the presidency was that the election would basically reverse all progress in Iraq--basically throwing away the Iraqis just like Clinton did. HW Bush started it, Clinton ended it prematurely. W Bush restarted it, seemingly trying to fix the problem left over by Clinton. Kerry seemed to want to throw it away again.
Quote
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
...
On the Senate floor on October 9, 2002, he said that "According to the CIA's report, all U.S. intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop nuclear weapons."
To me, that was basically Kerry changing sides. He had no real position and no backbone on the issue.

...

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Back in the late 1700s, the founding fathers never thought of a man running for president and then his wife running for president--effectively doubling their power over the country and becoming a sort of monarchy.

Odd that they didn't also think of the more logical and more monarchy like example of a father then son becoming president in that case. You'd have thought that one would have occurred to them straight away.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Except since when did John Adams or WHH have any say in what JQA or Ben Harrison did? Hell, if HW had his son by the nuts, we wouldn't have this same mess.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
I personally didn't like Al Gore. Just something about him never struck me as right, even as a little kid. I don't know why, though I do have a basis for my more recent dislike of Gore. I think he's blowing the entire global warming and environmental disaster theme a bit out of proportion. Yeah he's right about some things, but he still spews too much hot air and seems to be focusing on personal profit over actual improvement. He seems to have taken a genuine issue as a fast trip to Hollywood and a popular topic in media. He may very well have been a better President than Bush--we don't know how different this world would be if 9/11 would have been under a Gore administration, versus a Bush administration.

Well, you then basicely admit that leadership has nothing to do with number of votes. Maybe you just made a big type at the beginning. Anyways, I don't believe Gore is in the enviromentalism for the publicity stunt - he's been at it for 20 years, back in the days when it wasn't very popular. As for the movie - it's a way to get a message across. Overblown? A bit in a few cases, but the masses are dumb and you have to shake em up a bit to stir them into action.


Quote
As for Kerry, he always struck me as a fake. While he served in Vietnam, I think that he lied about some of what he did or how heroic he was. A lot of stories about war are blown out of proportion--and he seemed to want to exaggerate that story as well. One particular point I didn't like about his 2004 bid for the presidency was that the election would basically reverse all progress in Iraq--basically throwing away the Iraqis just like Clinton did. HW Bush started it, Clinton ended it prematurely. W Bush restarted it, seemingly trying to fix the problem left over by Clinton. Kerry seemed to want to throw it away again.
Quote
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

I really wouldn't know about his service record, alltough I noticed that practicely every candididate overblows his military career. As far as his stances go - I don't consider being rigid a good trait in a leader. One should change his stance or oppinions if presented enough evidence.
If a stance is changed for other reasons, wel..that's another matter completely...
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Hell Bush made a big deal about his military career despite apparently being AWOL for much of that time. There was even an unclaimed $50,000 reward for anyone who could prove he actually fulfilled his service requirements (Which didn't even require him to leave US airspace let alone fight in Vietnam).

Yet strangely people seem to concentrate on Kerry's war record. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 05:10:14 pm by karajorma »
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Quote
One thing that immediately comes to mind is state-run burglary--or the lottery. In my state of New York at least, the lottery is meant to help pay for the education system. However, most of the profits are being used anywhere BUT the education system. The only money that really goes from the lottery to education is all for publicity and a burst of new stuff--computers, projectors, calculators, and text books. Stuff that'll almost always be broken or outdated within 3-5 years. The lottery rarely seems to give a handout, and when they do they make sure every local TV station hears about it and makes a story about it.
In my opinion, anyone who plays the lottery deserves to have his money wasted.:p

As for Kerry, he always struck me as a fake. While he served in Vietnam, I think that he lied about some of what he did or how heroic he was. A lot of stories about war are blown out of proportion--and he seemed to want to exaggerate that story as well. One particular point I didn't like about his 2004 bid for the presidency was that the election would basically reverse all progress in Iraq--basically throwing away the Iraqis just like Clinton did. HW Bush started it, Clinton ended it prematurely.
George H. W. Bush made the decision to pull out of Iraq at the end of the Gulf War. Clinton didn't end the occupation--there was no occupation and we never went into Baghdad.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 05:49:41 pm by Woolie Wool »
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
I personally didn't like Al Gore. Just something about him never struck me as right, even as a little kid. I don't know why, though I do have a basis for my more recent dislike of Gore. I think he's blowing the entire global warming and environmental disaster theme a bit out of proportion. Yeah he's right about some things, but he still spews too much hot air and seems to be focusing on personal profit over actual improvement. He seems to have taken a genuine issue as a fast trip to Hollywood and a popular topic in media. He may very well have been a better President than Bush--we don't know how different this world would be if 9/11 would have been under a Gore administration, versus a Bush administration.

Well, you then basicely admit that leadership has nothing to do with number of votes. Maybe you just made a big type at the beginning. Anyways, I don't believe Gore is in the enviromentalism for the publicity stunt - he's been at it for 20 years, back in the days when it wasn't very popular. As for the movie - it's a way to get a message across. Overblown? A bit in a few cases, but the masses are dumb and you have to shake em up a bit to stir them into action.
Things being overblown like that tend to annoy me. While I may have been 9 when Bush was elected the first time, Gore's more recent stunts I have a good memory of. I'm not a big fan of environmentalism--I'll give you a quick quote why... "Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever." (Konstantin Tsiolkovsky). To me, this overbearing environmentalism is in direct dispute with Tsiolkovsky's most famous quote--we are still on this planet like we are because there's no reason to leave or look beyond. The space race against the USSR pushed us off of this planet and on to the closest celestial body--the moon. Part of that was competition (we're better than they are), part of that was survival (a nuclear war can destroy a planet, but you're safe if you're not on that planet). The race to the moon advanced humanity greatly--but now we have no reason to be so innovative. Humanity isn't mature--it's not even an adolescent. Even as a toddler, we have to leave this planet so we can find out more about the rest of the universe. That being said, I'm not going to be driving a dirty gas guzzler to mess up the environment. I'll do my share in making sure that this planet is safe, but I don't approve of scare tactics. I won't feel any more guilty by consuming more electricity than I did before. As Plato once wrote, "necessity is the mother of invention". If it's necessary, we'll eventually find a way to make it. We already know what we need to clean up this planet, though doing so will only send us backwards.

Quote
As for Kerry, he always struck me as a fake. While he served in Vietnam, I think that he lied about some of what he did or how heroic he was. A lot of stories about war are blown out of proportion--and he seemed to want to exaggerate that story as well. One particular point I didn't like about his 2004 bid for the presidency was that the election would basically reverse all progress in Iraq--basically throwing away the Iraqis just like Clinton did. HW Bush started it, Clinton ended it prematurely. W Bush restarted it, seemingly trying to fix the problem left over by Clinton. Kerry seemed to want to throw it away again.
Quote
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

I really wouldn't know about his service record, alltough I noticed that practicely every candididate overblows his military career. As far as his stances go - I don't consider being rigid a good trait in a leader. One should change his stance or oppinions if presented enough evidence.
If a stance is changed for other reasons, wel..that's another matter completely...
To me, being truthful in aspects in history are important. If it's embarrassing, give a good reason why. I'd rather hear a politician experimented with drugs in college from their own mouth, instead of the media. Everyone makes mistakes--nobody alive is perfect. Saying what you did and being modest is to me an important trait as a leader. If you did something absolutely fantastic, a 10/10 in every book, don't say you did an 11/10--I'd prefer if you said it was a 9/10 rather than an 11/10. Modesty and having a personal stance are, to me, important traits in a leader. Being in touch with reality and having your own opinion are important. Being rigid and not listening to anyone is bad--having your own opinion and putting it out there is good. Refusing to sign into law bills that repulse you is, to me, important. I'm personally against birth control--I wouldn't want my popularly elected president who claims to be against birth control signing a bill making it legal 100% of the time. To me, that screams jellyfish--that the politician has no backbone and will bend whatever way the current goes. If there's actual credible evidence, listen to it and consider it. On birth control, saying that it has its few redeeming qualities is enough for me to add in a few exceptions--if a woman is raped, she should have birth control accessible. If the woman AND her child have a slim chance of living past the birth, she should have birth control accessible.
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Quote
One thing that immediately comes to mind is state-run burglary--or the lottery. In my state of New York at least, the lottery is meant to help pay for the education system. However, most of the profits are being used anywhere BUT the education system. The only money that really goes from the lottery to education is all for publicity and a burst of new stuff--computers, projectors, calculators, and text books. Stuff that'll almost always be broken or outdated within 3-5 years. The lottery rarely seems to give a handout, and when they do they make sure every local TV station hears about it and makes a story about it.
In my opinion, anyone who plays the lottery deserves to have his money wasted.:p
But the lottery is to pay for the education system--which is where it's not going. Stupid people playing the lottery? Use the money to educate the next generations. That's not happening--politicians are generally business people and find some way to have personal gain. For most offices in Congress, Senate, and Legislatures, that's not true. For other offices such as Governor or President, that is clearly evident. Besides--the top dog in the system generally has much more influence than an ordinary member.

Quote
As for Kerry, he always struck me as a fake. While he served in Vietnam, I think that he lied about some of what he did or how heroic he was. A lot of stories about war are blown out of proportion--and he seemed to want to exaggerate that story as well. One particular point I didn't like about his 2004 bid for the presidency was that the election would basically reverse all progress in Iraq--basically throwing away the Iraqis just like Clinton did. HW Bush started it, Clinton ended it prematurely.
George H. W. Bush made the decision to pull out of Iraq at the end of the Gulf War. Clinton didn't end the occupation--there was no occupation and we never went into Baghdad.
I wasn't around for the first Gulf War. My family is staunchly conservative so that's what I've heard all the time. Still, we secured the trust of an important religious group in Iraq and then left them--next time around they weren't nearly as cooperative and fear a second US pull out. The US leaves and Iraq is back in chaos in the long run--that simple.

I heard a bit about Bush's time during Vietnam. I found he was pretty clearly afraid of fighting in it, and did what most sons of politicians did--he found a way to avoid the front lines entirely. I'd rather a politician say or imply that they didn't want to be in the war, versus serve "heroically" and then come out and claim he's against wars, then support one, and then come out against one again.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq

Ok, here's some more

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud_ohio.html

I find it amazing how you can dismiss such blatant fraud as conspiracy theories.


Quote
As Iraq and Afghanistan stabilize, we hear less and less about it. No doubt the media chooses what to show and what not to show

Ahhh yes, the liberal media conspiracy theory. Should we go into how the occupation forces have been inciting civil war by staging terror attacks against the locals? Iraq right now is still a mess, but this time we have no one to blame for it but ourselves.


EDIT: Here is one of the more damning things I found from the Baltimore Chronicle:

Quote
This year the election was followed by so many complaints about vote fraud, vote suppression and other anomalies that on Dec. 8, Rep. John Conyers (D-Michigan) hosted a forum (aired on C-Span) to highlight some of the problems. Last weekend, demonstrations protested vote problems in Ohio, where the Secretary of State, J. Kenneth Blackwell, was also Ohio’s Bush-Cheney state chairman. Blackwell certified Ohio election results this week. Jesse Jackson called on Blackwell to recuse himself from the election process, saying his objectivity is compromised by his position in the Bush-Cheney campaign. Conyers, Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee and dean of the Black Congressional Caucus, has also written to Blackwell, requesting his answer to questions that would have made headlines under any previous administration:

    * Why did Warren County officials exclude the press from observing vote counting, claiming that the FBI agent had warned of a terrorist threat, when the FBI has no knowledge of such a warning?

    * Why did several counties record more votes for an underfunded Democratic candidate for State Supreme Court than for the Democratic Presidential candidate?

    * Why did historically Democratic precincts in Cleveland record up to 22 times more votes for the Constitution Party than all third-party candidates combined received in 2000?

    * Why did voters in Mahong County report that when they voted for Kerry their vote was displayed as being cast for Bush?

    * Why did some precincts in Perry County at one point record more votes than voters?

    * Why did there appear to be a shortage of voting machines in traditionally Democratic precincts, causing up to 10-hour delays for voters, and a surplus of voting machines in traditionally Republican precincts?

http://baltimorechronicle.com/120904Burns.shtml
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 01:16:56 am by Kosh »
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Offline Rictor

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Goodbye Castro! Hello....Castro!

Raul is Prez. And judging by the BBC's "Interview With Locals" thingie, people overwhelmingly approve. Mostly they ***** about small things like education or currency reform, but every single one of them seems to want to continue on with the Revolution. Weird. I think we may be looking at the first and only modern dictatorship that has been consistently popular among its people for nearly 50 years. So they must be doing something right.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
I wasn't around for the first Gulf War. My family is staunchly conservative so that's what I've heard all the time. Still, we secured the trust of an important religious group in Iraq and then left them--next time around they weren't nearly as cooperative and fear a second US pull out. The US leaves and Iraq is back in chaos in the long run--that simple.


And Bush Snr was responsible for that. Clinton wasn't in power at the time. So I really don't see what this has to do with you thinking that Kerry and Gore were a worse than Bush.
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Ya know what? **** this thread. I said it before but I didn't post it before.

Quite frankly--this is getting blown out of proportion. I'm not a fan of most liberals so leave me to my opinion--however twisted you think it is. While I don't particularly like Bush, he was elected. End of story--we can all see that. If it was such a big scandal, the liberal media should have torn it up and had it reversed. I didn't like either candidate for 2000 and 2004--that's also my opinion and I gave a few reasons for it (a refresher: I didn't like Gore for a forgotten reason back in 2000, when I was 9, and now I don't like his massacre of accurate Environmentalism and I didn't like Kerry because he appeared shifty and seemed to be wildly overplaying his actions in Vietnam). I don't know if Bush or Gore or Bush or Kerry would be a better president. Quite frankly, I don't care. One thing I learned in the past 17 years of life is let the more-distant past go! Know what happened though don't try to rewrite it. I gave up arguing and debating and presenting my opinion on the actions of previous decades. It happened in war x for Y and Z reasons by generations well before mine. They had their reasons and I shouldn't judge them as I don't know all their reasons. Don't think about it and try writing your own new book to make your own life better on a whole. That goes for politics too. Yeah, I'm young. Yeah, I probably still can't vote in 2008. I'll have my own political decisions to make starting with 2009, and I sincerely hope that I'll never have to vote for a Bush, a Clinton, a Gore, or a Kerry for president.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
There's a difference between you having an opinion and having factual inaccuracies to back it up.

Similarly if you're going to state your opinion on a discussion thread you should expect the possibility people are going to ask you the reason why you hold that opinion. As that's what a discussion is.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
One thing I learned in the past 17 years of life is let the more-distant past go!
Go back to bed, America. Do not question the past. Fall in line. Do not trouble yourselves with thought, go drink beer and watch American Gladiators.

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Come on man, you're blowing things out of proportion. That he's interested in politics at all is a good thing. Not everything calls for Bill Hicks ;);)

Also, i seem to recall this thread being about Castro. Anyone want to place bets on how long Fidel is going to live? I wouldn't be surprised if he outlived Raul.

  

Offline Bob-san

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Come on man, you're blowing things out of proportion. That he's interested in politics at all is a good thing. Not everything calls for Bill Hicks ;);)

Also, i seem to recall this thread being about Castro. Anyone want to place bets on how long Fidel is going to live? I wouldn't be surprised if he outlived Raul.
Just because one on-topic post was made, I'll make a single post in reply to it. I'd think that Fidel can't last past a half decade--I'll give him 5 years at max. As for his brother, maybe a decade at max. The old regime can't last forever--though Castro has certainly tried.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
One thing I learned in the past 17 years of life is let the more-distant past go!
Go back to bed, America. Do not question the past. Fall in line. Do not trouble yourselves with thought, go drink beer and watch American Gladiators.

No need for these sort of comments Mefustae.

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
Even though it is sadly true....... :(
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
I wasn't around for the first Gulf War. My family is staunchly conservative so that's what I've heard all the time. Still, we secured the trust of an important religious group in Iraq and then left them--next time around they weren't nearly as cooperative and fear a second US pull out. The US leaves and Iraq is back in chaos in the long run--that simple.

Wow.  Let's try for a realistic history lesson, shall we?

-Iraq fights Iran throughout the 1980s.  Neither side wins, but Iraq has successfully held Iran out of the Arab world (Iranians are not Arabs, they're Persian).
-Iraq's economy is left in shambles after the war and they want loans from their neighbours, notably Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, at good rates since they feel they're been protecting them.
-Iraq also feels a historical ownership of Kuwait.
-Iraq issues an ultimatum to Kuwait, then promptly invades.
-UN Security Council tells Iraq to GTFO and creates a deadline.  Iraq ignores it.
-UN Security Council authorizes a coalition military force to forcibly remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait.  That was the sole mandate of the UN forces.  They consisted of:  most NATO countries, Russia, the Arab League, and several others.
-After a lengthy bombing campaign, the ground war begins.  After 100 hours of fighting, Iraqi forces have either been slaughtered, surrendered, or driven far back across the border into Iraq.  Retreating Iraqi forces are bombed into oblivion on the road back to Baghdad.
-The US, leading the UN Coalition, declines to pursue the Iraqi's and oust Hussein for three reasons:
1.  The UN mandate was only to aid Kuwait, NOT invade Iraq or remove its leadership.
2.  The Arab League, a key supporter of the coalition, would not have participated in an operation to remove Saddam, and indeed, may have militarily opposed it.
3.  Saddam was on shaky ground anyway and it was widely believed among intelligence sources that an internal coup would successfully remove him.  Unfortunately, said intelligence failed to take into account the fact that the Republican Guard was kept largely in reserve and still protected Saddam.

The US and UN were never in Iraq excluding a few ground and air units that pursued fleeing Iraqi forces.  Indeed, it was the abject failure of the UN mandate to secure a lasting stability in the region that allowed the US the premise in 2003 to claim Iraq was producing WMDs and invade.

Had the UN resolution allowed more stringent military sanctions against Iraq and actually had teeth when it came to keeping weapons inspectors in-country; or, had the UN forces bombed out the Republican Guard units protecting Saddam and given money and weapons support to pro-democratic and pro-Western factions in Iraq already seeking to oust Saddam... things would have turned out very differently.

As it was, it had very little to do with the man sitting in the White House at the time.  And it was Bush in charge during the Gulf War, not Clinton.  Clinton was later merely following down the path the UN and Bush had already laid out.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Fidel Castro steps down as president of Cubq
One thing I learned in the past 17 years of life is let the more-distant past go!
Go back to bed, America. Do not question the past. Fall in line. Do not trouble yourselves with thought, go drink beer and watch American Gladiators.

No need for these sort of comments Mefustae.
Actually, to balance things out, I thought Mefustae's post was not only reasonable, but insightful.  Whatever your political persuasion, knowing history is better than choosing to ignore it.

(Feel free to flame me if I interpreted things completely out of context; I only read back as far as this post. :))