Author Topic: Dog Fighting  (Read 9216 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

I've beaten FS2 and FS1 on medium, and it was all pretty much follow a fighter and shoot it. So I decided to play on Insane and I just got my ass handed to me. My wingmen despite flying "newer and more advance" fighters were losing to Lokis and Hercules. So, is there any real tactic to dog fighting on Freespace? On one of the mission, I was down to 1% health and there was only one hostile fighter with 56%. So I flew head on to him to about 1200 meters and fired all of my missiles and then did a 180 degrees turn while my missile slammed head on to the enemy fighter.

Other than that, it doesn't seem like there's any real tactics you could use. Not to mention at the start of the mission, you have around 2-3 missiles already flying at you. So, does anyone have any tips? Any secrets to dogfighting on Insane?

 
Avoid the weapons fire and you won't get hit, pilot.


 :nervous:
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

 
Well. Welcome to reality.

Welcome to the Insane difficulty level.
Best training is to join your local air force, get jammed into a jet fighter and train your reflexes to MAXIMUM 0.001 second reaction time.
A High Grade (Saitek Cyborg EVO WIRELESS, anti cable-cluttering) and a uber efficient keyboard layout is key.
For God's sake, always have one finger on the countermeasure button. A B S O L U T E L Y  A V O I D  any ship armed with anti fighter beams.
Always switch your energy setting apropriate to the current situation.

Now, even for Jesus' sake, AVOID FLYING BOMBERS WHENEVER you CAN. Even if it's this uber sexy, almost dogfighting-capable Artemis.

In a nutshell, avoid capships and beams, never fly bombers and you need to have a APM (Actions per minute; it's a real unit!) of like 2...thousand.
And this ain't no ****. But don't quote me for that one. - Mika

I shall rrreach worrrld domination!

 

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
I think a wireless joystick would hurt your reaction time, not help it, and it wouldn't be as precise as a wired one.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline colecampbell666

  • I See Dead Pictures
  • 212
  • Evolution and ascension.
Yeah, an EVO Force is a safer bet.
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 

Offline Zoltan

  • 26
Name your pilot Michael Vick and you should do fine...

Seriously though, I find on Insane it is best to use fast and manueverable fighters, and just avoid gettting hit as often as possible.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." - Groucho Marx

 
I'm not good at all, but whenever i have somebody on my six, i imagine being them trying to shoot me, and i plot the most complex and hard to hit flight path possible. Maybe I'm a psychopath if i can do that in half a second, but it really isn't that hard. I find flying in a circle in front of your target the best way to **** with the lead indicator, since apparently it doesn't calculate turning speeds either. and since AIs tend to fly like you have a lead indicator in front of your ship, it tends to work with them. I found this tactic surprisingly affective at beams, too.

Another thing to do is to take advantage of Freespace's unrealistic  (since sound can't travel in a vacuum) sound system, that being the ability to hear when your opponent fires his weapon. I fly in one direction, and as soon as i hear the enemy on my six fire, i jerk in the opposite direction the lead indicator said i was going to do. To me, it's all about fooling the indicator, since, like i said, AIs fly like they are using one. This works in freelancer too :D
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 
Well jeez... I either use my 15 bucks Radio Shack mouse or my 10 bucks keyboard that I got from a hardware/general store. I've never used a joystick either.

The biggest problem is my wingmen are just dying like flies. They fly in and then BAM, one of them dies within seconds. Then pretty soon, I'm the only one left and I'm outnumbered by like 5 fighters. Then all I get from Command is, "No reinforcements are available, you are on your own pilot."

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Practice the gauntlets on the port on insane til you adjust to insane working conditions. 
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
The problem with FS is that it's very difficult to do the whole looking around thing the way you'd like to if you wanted to fly well, so your situational awareness is kinda shot.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Radar and the R key (nearest threat) FTW.......



I dunno i normally get all fighters to cover me or cover the bombers *(if any) then then punch the afterburner and pray!
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 
When your wing is flying at another hostile wing preceding playing "chicken" with an enemy fighter (which you will never, ever win on Insane), before you're even in firing range, shoot sprays of your primary at the enemy wing. This tactic seriously does keep them from charging you; something you never ever want to happen on Insane. Helped me out many times.

Other than that, do lots of crazy dodging but try to spare burners. If an enemy on Insane hits you even once, move your ass like you're about to be pwned by a dozen seeking Infyrnos.

Let's see. . . Fury dumb-fire is your friend.

And get your wing to work together. (Shift-A followed by 3 will have everyone attack your target, shredding them to bits.)

Don't even chance a fleeting glance at the Maxim canon.

Fly fast and maneuverable ships. Enemies on Insane will make mincemeat of even the Ares.

Don't break anything expensive during your conquest! (I mean in real life.)

 
In other words, on insane difficulty you will end up in this case:

Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

  

Offline Bob-san

  • Wishes he was cool
  • 210
  • It's 5 minutes to midnight.
My advice is to stay back and play commander. In one mission where you have to lure the Repulse so the SuperSoaker 9000 Deluxe can destroy it, my best advice and tactic is to give my wingmen HercII's and myself fly a Perseus. Fly at the enemies and basically stay at the edge of weapons range--then lure them to the cruiser and keep going for 2 clicks. Turn around and help out, but repeat the maneuver and keep all wingmen back at your cruiser. Anyways--for that mission, don't try to engage in a dogfight unless theres <3 enemies around, and then assign all wingmen to attack one enemy after another. Don't use engage enemy or protect me--always protect target or destroy target.
NGTM-1R: Currently considering spending the rest of the day in bed cuddling.
GTSVA: With who...?
Nuke: chewbacca?
Bob-san: The Rancor.

 

Offline Damage

  • 26
  • I'm a Major.
It might just be my imagination, but it seems like your fighter is slightly more maneuverable when you use all three axis (axes?) of rotation at the same time.  In other words, pullingup/left/rollingleft at the same time helps you make that turn when you get a head-to-head engagement.  For me, it's sort of like watching those Maras and Dragons make that nifty little half-sliding turn.  I admit it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it's helped me get into position behind the enemy on several occasions.
Other good tactics (or strategies) for me...keep your bursts of fire short (especially if you're using something heavy, like the Kayser) or go with something that doesn't suck your energy down.  Subachs (and Mekhus) are pretty good against light fighters and bombers, thanks to that rapid-fire of theirs.  (Although you have to be careful about taking on heavy bombers and fighters with them).
If you have a good dogfighting missile, like the Harpoon, use it, but use it wisely.  Don't just fire off two or three rounds during your first pass, even if you have a lock.  Drain some shields, lock your missile on (at the same time if you can manage it), fire off that last kill shot, then go looking for a new target.
As far as dodging enemy fire, I always try to just jerk the controls almost at random.  This works okay against fighters, but you'll need to out turn them and get in behind.  Getting out of range for a few seconds will work okay against "dumb" targets, but interceptors and attack fighters will still catch your rear.
Beam turrets are best avoided altogether, usually by never getting within close range of them.  This is where trebuchets and maxims really come into their own, because they both have the range to let you engage a cruiser or destroyer's turrets without ever coming into weapons range of the ship itself.

Good luck.
I didn't feel like putting anything here.  Then I did it anyway just to be contrary.

 
It might just be my imagination, but it seems like your fighter is slightly more maneuverable when you use all three axis (axes?) of rotation at the same time.  In other words, pullingup/left/rollingleft at the same time helps you make that turn when you get a head-to-head engagement.  For me, it's sort of like watching those Maras and Dragons make that nifty little half-sliding turn.  I admit it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it's helped me get into position behind the enemy on several occasions.
sounds like an optical illusion to me
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Bob-san

  • Wishes he was cool
  • 210
  • It's 5 minutes to midnight.
It might just be my imagination, but it seems like your fighter is slightly more maneuverable when you use all three axis (axes?) of rotation at the same time.  In other words, pullingup/left/rollingleft at the same time helps you make that turn when you get a head-to-head engagement.  For me, it's sort of like watching those Maras and Dragons make that nifty little half-sliding turn.  I admit it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it's helped me get into position behind the enemy on several occasions.
sounds like an optical illusion to me
It's harder for the AI to shoot, so you dodge the shots. Another strat I had for when you HAD to fly a bomber is to keep at about 1/2 to 1/3 speed and use the burners in bursts to avoid missiles. It's hard to do, but worth it. Plus, you'll get completely owned every time you approach a cap ship with a bomber.
NGTM-1R: Currently considering spending the rest of the day in bed cuddling.
GTSVA: With who...?
Nuke: chewbacca?
Bob-san: The Rancor.

 
Oh, that tactic?

Yeah, i find it really affective, though my joystick doesn't have R axis, so i gotta use the keyboard.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 
SuperSoaker 9000 Deluxe

Hmm, played JAD recently?  :lol:

Anyway, back on topic:

      Real dogfighting is hard to simulate with available technologies. In order to survive (a.k.a. Pass Flight School), a pilot has to master situational awareness. The key to situational awareness is the ability to quickly check your surroundings. Since the technology to do that in space sims is limited, achieving situational awareness is difficult. Also, in combat only a few shots are required to either debilitate or neutralize an enemy craft. Even with the shields from Freespace you are still flying fairly sensitive craft that is highly susceptible to vital system damage. If a developer were to model this in a game, the user would quickly lodge his joystick into his monitor after dying for the umpteen-millionth time.
      Further compounding this dilemma is the fact that things in space have a known tendency to keep moving in the same direction at the same velocity. We're used to having planes that require engines that constantly burn to keep the craft flying. Too, we use flaps even in modern aircraft as the main methods of maneuvering. In space you must use either use engine ports that can direct their output (making the craft less maneuverable) and/or using maneuvering jets to alter the direction of the craft. Both methods require intricate systems that can be easily damaged in a dogfight. Once again, if a developer included this into a game the user would rip apart their joystick by hand out of the frustration caused by their umpteen-billionth death.

    |[===---(-         
    ||
 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 
Dual fire or single shot for missiles? For primaries? Should I go for the firing slot that has more firing ports? I find using 2 ports at the same time very draining on energy, so that's out of the question unless I'm at point blank.