[Kosh]

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/07/0355244.shtml


Appearently if you go to this university.......

[Nuclear1]

Yeah, how dare we allow students to use technology to study.

[haloboy100]

My social teacher will only let us study the notes he gives us cause apparently only his knowledge is the right one.

Show of hands, who has exactly the same teacher?

[Polpolion]

Show of hands, who has exactly the same teacher?

Given your age and location, most likely no one has the same exact teacher.

[haloboy100]

Meh. Worth a shot

[IceFire]

Sort of a hot topic right now for all Ontario universities.  I don't know if any of the articles have represented any of the facts so far but theres definitely a balance to be struck somewhere.  The problem is that the assignment was, apparently, to be completed independently and it was not thus the academic dishonesty but the issue as I see it is that this was happening elsewhere in face to face study rooms rather than Facebook and of course nothing was done about that.  The medium changes, its easier to track people, and bammo.  Right or wrong they came down hard on this guy and its kicked up allot of fuss...be interesting to get a few more facts on the issue and see where its going.

[BloodEagle]

A bulletin board is no place for facts. 

[MP-Ryan]

Sort of a hot topic right now for all Ontario universities.  I don't know if any of the articles have represented any of the facts so far but theres definitely a balance to be struck somewhere.  The problem is that the assignment was, apparently, to be completed independently and it was not thus the academic dishonesty but the issue as I see it is that this was happening elsewhere in face to face study rooms rather than Facebook and of course nothing was done about that.  The medium changes, its easier to track people, and bammo.  Right or wrong they came down hard on this guy and its kicked up allot of fuss...be interesting to get a few more facts on the issue and see where its going.

Here lies a problem with moronic university professors in the first place.

The minute you step out of a classroom, work is no longer solitary.  The fact of the matter is that NOTHING gets done in any discipline without some form of collaboration.  Professors that think they are being clever by saying students must work independently are doing them a disservice.  Of course, the main reason professors do this is because it is much easier to come up with a problem that will challenge a single student working alone than a class of 100 students, all of whom are working together.

It's even worse for an engineering prof to do this - the second an engineering student is hired on in a real job, they will be collaborating with their coworkers... so why the hell are professors fostering an individualist environment when it runs entirely contrary to industry practice?

[BloodEagle]

Because they're the Devil incarnate? 

[IPAndrews]

I feel like I should disagree - but I'm not.

[Mustang19]

Why the hell are professors fostering an individualist environment when it runs entirely contrary to industry practice?

Not if you, well, end up becoming a professor yourself.

I get the impression that academia attracts succesful people that just don't like a normal, "productive" career requiring long hours and people skills. Academic work is different from professional work in a lot of ways. So no surprise if they expect you to do something that won't help in the real world, like take two years of general education classes that are totally irrelevant to your major.

[CP5670]

Why the hell are professors fostering an individualist environment when it runs entirely contrary to industry practice?

Not if you, well, end up becoming a professor yourself.

I get the impression that academia attracts succesful people that just don't like a normal, "productive" career requiring long hours and people skills. Academic work is different from professional work in a lot of ways. So no surprise if they expect you to do something that won't help in the real world, like take two years of general education classes that are totally irrelevant to your major.

The percentage of undergrads who go into that career track is very small, and most academic jobs do require those things, just in different ways. The long hours are now spent cranking out papers, which is also an increasingly collaborative process these days.

As for the general education stuff, those have no use in any line of work, either professional or academic.

[Mustang19]

The long hours are now spent cranking out papers, which is also an increasingly collaborative process these days.

Yes, but it's entirely optional for them. The bulk of their required work is teaching and grading papers, which doesn't add up to many hours in a week compared to the "real world". A career in academia gives you a certain freedom that desk jobs don't have, which might explain why professors emphasize individual work, and perhaps why they tend to be liberal.

[perihelion]

Bull****.  Research and publication are not optional in any way, shape, or size.  You want tenure?  You want to even have a prayer of keeping your job?  You publish.  Or you are out.  This is not just true at the massive research one institutions.  The only exception would be schools that are strictly teaching only, but more and more of those are trying to force their professors into research because that is where the money is.

At one primarily teaching university with which I am acquainted, the norm is for professors to teach 3 courses per semester with the expectation of at least one grant application, preferably two.  That research is assumed to equal one additional course per semester, so the professors get paid for 4 "courses" per semester.  At a research one university, I've heard it largely depends on seniority, but sometimes the ratio pivots as low as one class per year with much much higher research output expectations.

[CP5670]

The long hours are now spent cranking out papers, which is also an increasingly collaborative process these days.

Yes, but it's entirely optional for them. The bulk of their required work is teaching and grading papers, which doesn't add up to many hours in a week compared to the "real world". A career in academia gives you a certain freedom that desk jobs don't have, which might explain why professors emphasize individual work, and perhaps why they tend to be liberal.

As perihelion said, it's not optional until you get a tenured associate position, which easily takes at least 10 years (beyond the Ph.D.) with the extremely competitive market for such jobs these days, and that's assuming you were among the absolute cream of the crop as a student. There is a certain kind of freedom in the sense that you don't have a routine 9-5 desk job, but the early years are actually very tough, and you also have far more in the way of teaching duties at that point. I know quite a few people who gave up on that career track after moving between schools for several years and not getting a permanent position, and I've pretty much decided to stay away from all that already.

At one primarily teaching university with which I am acquainted, the norm is for professors to teach 3 courses per semester with the expectation of at least one grant application, preferably two.  That research is assumed to equal one additional course per semester, so the professors get paid for 4 "courses" per semester.  At a research one university, I've heard it largely depends on seniority, but sometimes the ratio pivots as low as one class per year with much much higher research output expectations.

Yeah, from what I've seen at many places, the bigshot professors typically only teach one class a year (usually some graduate one) but are either producing a paper just about every month or have done major work in the past and are now old. Although some guys do more teaching by their own choice.

[MP-Ryan]

Yeah, from what I've seen at many places, the bigshot professors typically only teach one class a year (usually some graduate one) but are either producing a paper just about every month or have done major work in the past and are now old. Although some guys do more teaching by their own choice.

And some do less... and thank our lucky stars that that is the case.  Professors who love research and are forced into a classroom are a menace to their students because they usually can't teach to begin with and don't care.

I went to a primarily research-oriented university.

[CP5670]

I have seen the type, but the guys who do it because they want to are generally very good, even some who are also top researchers. It's the ones who are forced to teach that you have to be more careful with.

[perihelion]

The ones that can do both well are very rare gems, indeed.  If university administrators were thinking at all long-term, they would spend much more effort finding and cultivating these professors who can teach as well as expand the common body of knowledge.  Unfortunately, they are frequently punished for putting "undue emphasis" on the teaching side of the job at the expense of the research side.  Good teaching does not bring in any additional funding.     

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Wonder why you don't hear them complaining about the mandatory study groups for athletes.