Author Topic: Meat  (Read 11710 times)

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I've heard about this.

My family is in the agriculture business, and like Christianity, this is mostly just a few bad eggs getting all the attention, setting a bad example for the rest of us.

They get all the 11 o clock news segments because of their shock value.
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline achtung

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Tastes too good.

Lack of care imminent.
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In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline blowfish

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I'm not against eating meat, but there's definitely a right way to raise animals for meat and a wrong way.

This is definitely the wrong way.

 
Yep.  I agree.  Except the wrong way is the way that gets all the public attention...
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline blowfish

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It still exists though.

People just need to be careful what they buy.  I'm sure its difficult to know how an animal was raised when you buy meat though.

 

Offline Kosh

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Anyone ever watch "The Meatrix"?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline achtung

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I really prefer the meat you get from animals that are raised on proper old-school farms.

You can definitely tell a huge difference between the meat you get from an assembly line farm and a mom-and-pop place.  I'm sure you can guess which is better.
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In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline Nuke

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awesome, i feel like ribs :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Darius

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Meat is murder.

Tasty, tasty murder.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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PETA might actually get somewhere if they quit with the sensationalist bull****.  Respectable farmers around the world get **** on by videos like this that don't differentiate between responsible producers and those that take shortcuts and cut costs to maximize profit.

And then there's PETA itself:  these are the same people who frequently go after research universities, which arguably have more stringent ethical standards for animals than people.

Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time.  Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 07:21:05 am by MP-Ryan »
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 
Sensationlism? Not really. Just wierd games.

Why? Here.

Quote
Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time.  Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).

This is a common misconception. Many cultures historically where or are vegetarian out of necessity, as growing livestock is very demanding on water and land resources. The ancient inhabitants of Mexico, for example, lived off beans and maize for lack of the various "meat" animals that Europeans have always taken for granted, such as pigs and chickens. It's not as nutritious, but you can live off meat.

Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins. In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".

 

Offline Mefustae

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Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins. In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".
If you're anal enough to go that far, you'll be anal enough to take issue that the petroleum-based products you're consuming were at one time zooplankton or other biological organisms.

They may have been dead for millions of years, but that doesn't mean they don't have feelings.

 
"Anal"? Thank you.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Quote
Sensationlism?

PETA, like all good advocacy groups, focuses on a narrow range of the problem and extrapolates it to an entire sector or industry in order to bring attention.  Their pieces move out of context.  The bit about university research is a good example.  They focus on a very narrow idea - say, a single specific practice that takes place within supervision - and then extrapolate it as an abuse issue by callous or negligent staff.  The truth is nowhere near their portrayal of it.

Quote
This is a common misconception. Many cultures historically where or are vegetarian out of necessity, as growing livestock is very demanding on water and land resources. The ancient inhabitants of Mexico, for example, lived off beans and maize for lack of the various "meat" animals that Europeans have always taken for granted, such as pigs and chickens. It's not as nutritious, but you can live off meat.

Today with artificial suplements available you can have a well-rounded diet based on vegetables and vitamins.

No, that is the misconception.

Many cultures have lived off a low-meat diet, but that is not to say that they were properly nourished.  One need only look at the dramatic drop in disease and dramatic increases in longevity that have accompanied the introduction in balanced nutrition over the last century for an example.

Even with artificial supplements, it is not possible to get and maintain a healthy balance of nutrients without a meat component in the diet.  Sure, you can easily live on a diet without meat but that doesn't mean its healthy.  Several components of our immune systems are derived directly from meat products and cannot be artificially supplemented.  Over and above that, our musculature is dependent upon large quantities of pre-processed animal protein.

Humans are omnivores.  Truth be told, many Westerners actually eat considerably more meat than they need and should be eating more vegetative matter (particularly fresh vegetables and fruits and not grains).  But to cut it out entirely?  It's not a feasible option for a healthy lifestyle.

Even the healthiest of vegetarians are lacking in critical dietary material which they attempt to supplement artificially (but again, not all dietary components can be).  And most vegetarians aren't that healthy to begin with - many make their dietary choices for political reasons and fail to properly balance their intake, cutting out protein and hormonal components entirely.  This is especially common in young adults.

So yeah, it's possible to live without meat but its not necessarily good for you, no matter what you take by way of supplements.  The biggest detraction is to the immune system and to overall system growth.  This is part of the reason that cultures without a regular supply of meat (which does not have to be red; it can be poultry or fish too) tend to have shorter lifespans and physically diminutive stature.

Vegetarianism is a political rebellion against the physical nature of the human body, which is why it is fundamentally impractical and foolhardy.  Reduction in levels of meat consumption to sustainable levels is a good idea; elimination of all meat from one's diet is idiotic.

Quote
In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".

No, you couldn't; you lose the mineral elements, pre-processed and complete protein fragments, antibodies, and hormonal elements that are derived from plants and animals in our diet.

We aren't plants - we can't take base elements are assemble them into food.  The human digestion system has evolved to use whole pieces of what we eat in our own bodies - we break only a fraction of what we eat down into simple sugars and short amino acid chains.  Our bodies regularly absorb whole proteins and hormones.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 08:22:21 am by MP-Ryan »
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Mefustae

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"Anal"? Thank you.
Wasn't sniping at you, I was taking a shot at the hardcore vegan tossers who would actually do something like that. No offense intended, towards you at any rate. :)

 

Offline Hellstryker

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PETA might actually get somewhere if they quit with the sensationalist bull****.  Respectable farmers around the world get **** on by videos like this that don't differentiate between responsible producers and those that take shortcuts and cut costs to maximize profit.

And then there's PETA itself:  these are the same people who frequently go after research universities, which arguably have more stringent ethical standards for animals than people.

Furthermore, I simply happen to enjoy a good steak from time to time.  Humans are not meant to be vegetarians; our bodies require meat products to get all the essential nutrients we need (no vegetarian diet is capable of providing all the nutrition a human requires, though they do get close).

Oh I agree entirely. It's just that 80% of our meat comes from places such as this

 
PETA, like all good advocacy groups, focuses on a narrow range of the problem and extrapolates it to an entire sector or industry in order to bring attention.  Their pieces move out of context.  The bit about university research is a good example.  They focus on a very narrow idea - say, a single specific practice that takes place within supervision - and then extrapolate it as an abuse issue by callous or negligent staff.  The truth is nowhere near their portrayal of it.

There are truths and untruths in what animal rights activists say. Of course an activist website is going to be biased, but it can direct you to more information if you're willing to investigate.

Extremism is not the only option. Many people are unaware of the distinction between animal rights and animal welfare.

Quote
So yeah, it's possible to live without meat but its not necessarily good for you, no matter what you take by way of supplements.  The biggest detraction is to the immune system and to overall system growth.  This is part of the reason that cultures without a regular supply of meat (which does not have to be red; it can be poultry or fish too) tend to have shorter lifespans and physically diminutive stature.

Vegetarianism is an imperfect idea. Although many think that it offers health benefits, the science suggests two major problems with this diet: 1, higher death rates (although longer lifespans) that bring average life expectancy below normal and 2, a diminutive stature, which reduces one's ability to resist disease. I agree with you: vegeterianism is not the "optimum" human diet. To many, it's more about sacrifice for political change than living healthier. A serving of fish from time to time would make more sense to those who adopt vegetarianism for health.

Quote
Quote
In fact, for the really hardcore, in theory you could process petroleum into various organic compounds and survive without eating anything that once "lived".

No, you couldn't; you lose the mineral elements, pre-processed and complete protein fragments, antibodies, and hormonal elements that are derived from plants and animals in our diet.

We aren't plants - we can't take base elements are assemble them into food.  The human digestion system has evolved to use whole pieces of what we eat in our own bodies - we break only a fraction of what we eat down into simple sugars and short amino acid chains.  Our bodies regularly absorb whole proteins and hormones.

I'm being purely theoretical here. All of the carbs, fats, proteins, vitamins, and minerals that the body needs to survive can either be artificially synthesized or found in nature. It just wouldn't be tasty... among other things. The body can be "deficient" in several nutrients and still survive.

 

Offline Polpolion

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I'm all hungry now...

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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I'm being purely theoretical here. All of the carbs, fats, proteins, vitamins, and minerals that the body needs to survive can either be artificially synthesized or found in nature. It just wouldn't be tasty... among other things. The body can be "deficient" in several nutrients and still survive.

As I pointed out earlier, a great deal of the dietary requirements we have (for optimum health) cannot be synthesized into an ingestible form.  While they are found in nature, they aren't found in plants, fungi, or microbes.  Some of the hormones and proteins we require are restricted to phylum chordata - which means fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians, or mammals.

An artificially synthesized diet is feasible for short periods of time only.  This is actually why organizations such as NASA are taking a good hard look at tissue-level cloning and stem cell lines to produce edible meat products that meet all our dietary requirements.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]