Author Topic: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!  (Read 2195 times)

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An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Well, I'm pretty steamed right about now... I've just been playing Silent Threat (with SCP) and I'm up to the "Secret Recovery" mission.  I'm playing on Medium difficulty, and being something of a perfectionist, I've been trying to get the Bonus Objective (again) where you have to destroy the Typhon before leaving.

So I've outfitted myself with a Ulysses with 4 Prometheus cannons and 40 Hornets.  My wingmen each get a Hercules with 6 Prometheus cannons and a combination of Hornets and Interceptors... and off we go.

The mission starts off well, we blow up the first wave of Thoths without any casualties.  At this point I target the Typhon and order all my wingmen to destroy its weapons subsystem - I help out.

Epsilon 1 arrives with Delta wing, containing 3 Valkyries - I order Delta wing to guard Epsilon 1 while continuing the assault with Alpha wing.

The Weapons subsystem goes down and I order Alpha to continue attacking the Typhon.  Now, the horrible, endless wings of Thoths start respawning.  In past attempts at this mission, I quickly discovered that outfighting the Thoths was a waste of time - they come as fast as you can kill them and then proceed to wear me down and murder me.  So instead, I attack and destroy one of them to get their attention, and then start my 'evasive maneuvers'.  This basically consists of me hugging the Typhon close, afterburnering whenever a missile is locked onto me, and shooting at the Typhon as I skim over its surface.  All the while, I make sure the now-free Delta wing (Epsilon has escaped as required) is targetting and attacking the Typhon.  I've lost Alpha wing, but the Thoths now seem too concerned with hunting me down to worry about Delta wing slowly wearing away at the Typhon's hull.

The battle continues in this fashion for some time, with me eluding the Thoths, shooting at anything in my way, and Delta wing blasting away.

But then the Typhon goes down to 10% hull strength.... and become invulnerable.

That's right, no matter what I (or Delta wing, or stray shots from the Thoths for that matter) do, the Typhon's hull won't get any weaker.  I've destroyed every weapon and subsystem on the Typhon just to double-check, but that does nothing.  After a very extended period of frustation and shooting, I give up, engage the Thoths, and after a few moments promptly get owned.

So what the heck happened here?  Delta wing and I spent AGES shooting at the Typhon... it can't be that we weren't hitting it enough.  Did it suddenly develop Lucifer shields or something?

I'm really disappointed, as I was THIS close to finishing the mission properly only to have victory snatched away from me by... well, I'm not even sure what.

Has anyone else experienced this before?  Or is it just me being totally crazy?

 

Offline Mars

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
The Typhon is a destroyer, you'll find it impossible to destroy anything larger than a cruiser with a fighter in FS2 (except with Trebutchet.

Since the Freespace Port is based off of the FS2 engine the same rule applies

I can actually give you a (sort of) fix hang on a sec


 

Offline Mars

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Create a folder in your fsport mod folder called "data" (if it isn't already there)

create a folder in the "data" folder called "tables"

create a text file called "pheonixhuge-wep.tbm" (make sure the TBM is the extension, if you have extensions hidden in Windows XP you need to unhide them to do this)

In the text file copy and paste:

Code: [Select]
#Secondary Weapons
$Name: @Phoenix V
+nocreate
$Flags: ("player allowed" "Bomber+" "Huge")
#End

This should allow you to take out that tiresome Typhon with Phoenix V missiles once it gets to that last 10%

This should also allow you to take down the Hades the traditional way.
Tell me if it doesn't work
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 11:28:23 pm by Mars »

 
Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Aaah, that makes sense!  Thanks for the fix!  I will let you know when I manage to get enough courage to try the mission again and give it a shot.

Really damn annoying though, because even then I can see a few problems looming.

1) I always get my arse handed to me unless I'm flying a Ulysses... and a Ulysses can't carry Phoenix missiles.

2) I'd need a ton of Phoenix missiles to reduce a Typhon's hull strength from 10% to 0%... and in the situation I'm in, I don't think I'd survive any attempt at reloading my missiles.  If I stop my evasive maneouvers for more than about 5 seconds I have approximately six Thoth fighters all shooting at me with 4 Prometheus cannons and Interceptor missiles each.  :blah:

Also, you're telling me I can't kill the Hades with the old 'hide away in the engine compartment' trick?  Oh gods... I'll have to leave the safety of the glitch nest and restock my Harbingers!  Nooo!  The Lokis will get me!

I'm starting to get a feeling I can't win Silent Threat unless I play the original version and cheap my way to victory....  :(
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 11:56:04 pm by Soul Reaver »

 

Offline Mars

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
The fighters stop respawning at wave 20 I think. After that you can disarm the Typhon and turn your game speed up (CTRL + .) and then just unload on the Typhon (calling in support whenever you need it.)

I've done it before with the fsport, although I've only just started playing this game again. It just requires presistance, and you need to kill those Thoths at the beginning if you expect to win.

Honestly if you really wanted to you could make every weapon in the game "huge" but that just seems like cheating to me. Wheras doing this with the Pheonix V is somewhat justified because destroyers could be destroyed with anything before.

And yes, when I played FS1, I had a bunch of destroyer kills too.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Alternatively, you could be a bum, and leave only one Thoth left in the wing so the whole wing doesn't respawn. One Thoth's fire is easy enough to ignore. Right?
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Mad Bomber

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Or you could go into the ships.tbl and delete any reference to the "big_damage" flag (quotes included), to achieve more FS1-like gameplay.
"What the hell!? I've got a Snuffleupagus on my scanners! The Snuffleupagus is active!"

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Or you can make your Prometheus "Huge" and that would work too. Which is really, the simplest solution :D
(´・ω・`)
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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Hmmm, I like the solution of changing the ships.tbl file best, since it restores the original gameplay mechanic of Silent Threat.  To be quite honest, it actually makes more sense to me that way - sure, it's pretty damn hard for a fighter to totally blow up a Destroyer, but that seems more plausible to the Destroyer being completely and utterly invulnerable to a fighter no matter how much it gets shot up... right?  I mean, it's not like it was a cakewalk to blow up a Typhon with a fighter in the first place...

The only problem now is that I can't FIND the ships.tbl file.  In fact, I searched the whole computer and couldn't find it anywhere, and I don't have a Freespace2/data/tables/ or a Freespace2/fsport/data/tables/ folder like I would have expected.  I installed everything with Turey's installer but haven't done anything else to the game since, could that somehow be the cause of the problem?  Any idea where I could get that file?

Incidentally, if I WERE to get the ships.tbl file, could I put it in the folder Freespace2/fsport/data/tables/ so that it would only affect the gameplay of FSport?  That would probably be the best way of dealing with it.

I wonder if the folks working on fsopen know that the Bonus objective in Secret Recovery is totally impossible to get at present?  I know they're making a remake of Silent Threat (which I'm very much looking forward to) but still...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 03:35:12 am by Soul Reaver »

 

Offline Mars

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
The ships.tbl file is in the fsport3_0_4.vp file. You need a VP tool to open it and extract the ships.tbl.

Yes, if you have it in the /Freespace/fsport/data/tables folder it will effect only fsport

Honestly Silent Threat is very frustrating to play anyway, so this doesn't really bother me compared to all the other things. In fact, it's still possible if you damage the Typhon enough for the Science cruiser to take it out.

EDIT:

I've attached a modified table now, if you get it before it gets deleted. Put this in your /fsport/data/tables folder and it should work

[attachment deleted by ninja]
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 01:06:21 pm by Mars »

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
The Typhon is a destroyer, you'll find it impossible to destroy anything larger than a cruiser with a fighter in FS2 (except with Trebutchet.

Since the Freespace Port is based off of the FS2 engine the same rule applies.
Yup.  But version 3.1 will have an ai_profile flag toggled that restores the FS1 behavior.

 
Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Mars: Thanks a million for extracting and editing the file for me - that's a huge help.  It's in the needed folder now and I'll try this out later today if I get a chance.

Goober5000: That's excellent news (and good thinking) in my opinion. :)

 
Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Just to update: the ships.tbl file solution worked great.  Typhone got blowed up real good, and Bonus Objective got achieved.  Thanks again Mars!

 

Offline Kopachris

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Now, the horrible, endless wings of Thoths start respawning.
I told my wingmen to go home and I stayed behind to finish off the 3 or 4 waves of Nahemas in the mission in the nebula with the Aquitane trying to get to the Gamma Draconis node.  Just target practice to me.  Then again, I was invincible and had unlimited ammo...  Also, I would have put two wingmen in Valkyries or Ulysses, and I would have taken the Herc.  But, that's just me.
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Offline Mars

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Just take an Apollo and use the Typhons bulk to your advantage, the Thoths have excellent foreward firepower and manuverability, but their speed isn't great and their armor is paper thin, if you can get behind them they're history

 

Offline Clawandfang

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
It's a good job this came up, I was thinking about trying one of the gauntlets again. Oh, and by the way, you're a LoK fan?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:38:23 pm by Clawandfang »
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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
Kopachris: There's about 20 waves of Thoths before they run out, and I've never managed to get anywhere near killing them all.  Unlike Nahemas, which are incredibly slow and thus sitting ducks, Thoths actually fight and are fast and maneouverable enough to get behind you pretty quick.

My wingmen in this mission almost always die before Delta Wing becomes available, regardless of what fighters they're flying.  The reason I put them in Hercs is because they have a lot of firepower, so I can order them to destroy the Thoth's Weapon's subsystem before Delta wing arrives, which improves everyone's survivability all around.  Delta wing is always in Valkyries, I don't have a choice in that matter.

At about that point the Thoths arrive, and the rest of Alpha wing almost always gets trashed - if I go after one wing of Thoths, the other one murders the rest of Alpha wing before I can get to them.  If I'm the only one fighting them, and I'm trying to actively kill them, then my chances are almost nil - they outnumber me six to one, and there's no way for me to target one without having three or four of them shooting me from behind at the same time.  Charging straight at a group is suicide too, since they shoot at you with Interceptor missiles - if you're flying a Herc, then one frontal hit from an Interceptor causes hull damage, even if your shields are completely full (the fact that this doesn't happen with a Ulysses, and because the Ulysses is maneuverable and fast enough to easily dodge the missiles is why I like to fly the Ulysses).

Delta wing tends to survive because once Epsilon 1 leaves with the Giordano and all of Alpha wing other me is destroyed, the Thoths tend to want to kill me, rather than Delta wing.  This means that I can distract the Thoths and play cat-and-mouse amongst the Typhon while Delta does most of the damage, with me ordering them to destroy any turrets as I dodge away.  The Thoths inadvertantly help me out by shooting the Thyphon every time they miss my ship.

Once the Typhon is ready to blow I pump all my power into my Engines and afterburner out of there.  As I'm making my escape, I order Delta wing to cover me - since the Thoths inevitably all come after me, they get wasted by Delta coming up from behind them.

It's not actually that hard to pull off now that the Typhon is no longer invulnerable. :P

Mars: I just don't bother with the Thoths until the Typhon's gone - its MUCH easier that way.  Also, I've actually not flown the Apollo at ALL since the Hercules and Ulysses became available.  The Hercules has more firepower, and other than having slightly less missiles, the Ulysses is superior (better maneuverability and shields).  I can run rings around most enemies with the Ulysses, which makes it one of my favourite ships.

Clawandfang: While I certainly have played and do like Legacy of Kain, my screenname isn't from the series at all.  I've been using 'Soul Reaver' as my online name since before the first Blood Omen game even came out, so I can assure you it's not from there.  It's actually a name of a character I created... he's one of the main characters in a single player Warcraft III mod I'm making... the first five Chapters have been released already, and I'm working on Chapter VI at the moment (official site's at www.familykrieg.com/tothebitterend in case you've got Warcraft III:TFT and would like to give it a shot)

 

Offline Kopachris

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
I never liked the Ulysses myself, but it's a matter of opinion, after all.  I probably didn't like it because it couldn't use Banshees.  Were the Banshees available in that mission?  I will always be a Herc-Banshee-Hornet kinda person (or in FS2, Erinyes-Kayser-Tornado).
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: An Invulnerable Typhon?! No Way!
It's not actually that hard to pull off now that the Typhon is no longer invulnerable. :P
This is partly because your lasers are now dealing full damage, as opposed to partial capship-scaled damage. :p

(This is different from the 10% invulnerability threshold, but still dependent on the "big damage" flag.)