Author Topic: War with Iran?  (Read 8706 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Not at all. When someone joins the military, there can be any number of reasons weighing in on that decision. There are some pretty good incentives for military service, and if someone wants to join, more power to them

Except when you join to fight. Volunteering to go where the bullets are doesn't mean that you're brave, it means you're too stupid to be scared.

I take it you don't actually, you know, know all that many active-duty personnel.
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Offline Mefustae

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These sanctions, if they are enacted as they seem likely to be, would be far more devastating to Iran than any bombing campaign. They are meant to shut down the economy of an entire nation - lock, stock and barrel. Punishing 70 million people for the alleged crimes of a few dozen is both incredibly evil and incredibly stupid. A backwards, starving Iran is a greater threat to security than a prosperous, content Iran.
Perhaps. But change always comes most effectively in the groundswell from below rather than the lightning bolt from above. It's cruel, and it's evil, certainly, but it's not stupid. If Radical Islam won't feed you...surely you can fill in the rest.
Phew, good thing us westerners aren't trying to hold ourselves to a better standard.

I take it you don't actually, you know, know all that many active-duty personnel.
Not many, no. What, I require personal or direct experience with the service to disagree with soldier worship?

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Not at all. When someone joins the military, there can be any number of reasons weighing in on that decision. There are some pretty good incentives for military service, and if someone wants to join, more power to them

So what you're saying is that it's only a smart decision if you join for personal gain?  :doubt:

Except when you join to fight. Volunteering to go where the bullets are doesn't mean that you're brave, it means you're too stupid to be scared.

Wow. Once again, so says the person behind the rock.  :rolleyes:

 

Offline Mefustae

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So what you're saying is that it's only a smart decision if you join for personal gain?  :doubt:
No, i'm saying it's stupid to volunteer to go where the bullets are at. Is the concept really that hard to grasp? Anyway, it's not so much that i'm calling people stupid, just calling out the fact that most people tend to confuse bravery with being too stupid to be scared.

Wow. Once again, so says the person behind the rock.  :rolleyes:
I'm sure i'd find that comment much more cutting if I knew what you meant. :wtf:

 

Offline achtung

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I think he's trying to call you a coward.
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Offline Davros

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or a limpid :D

 

Offline Kosh

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I think he's trying to call you a coward.

Is he even in the army?
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Offline achtung

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I think he's trying to call you a coward.

Is he even in the army?

¯\(°_o)/¯
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In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline Rictor

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Perhaps. But change always comes most effectively in the groundswell from below rather than the lightning bolt from above. It's cruel, and it's evil, certainly, but it's not stupid. If Radical Islam won't feed you...surely you can fill in the rest.

But the thing is - Iran isn't really the big bad boogey-man it's made out to be. The people are among the more pro-Western pro-secular in the Middle East. And even the government largely contents itself with shutting down the occasional newspaper and making a big show of cheering on the Palis. No, for the real fundamentalists one would have to look at the likes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And yet, paradoxically, these are armed by Western governments and supported by Western business. Making Iran poor and isolated will increase nationalism and religious fervor, not decrease it. Nearly every (Iranian) opposition leader of note has said as much. And even if the Islamic Republic is toppled, Iranians aren't going to elect a government that will be friendly to those who starved them.

All this is assuming that you accept the notion of trying to change a sovereign nation's political system because you find it distasteful. Which I absolutely don't.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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In terms of soldiers I believe there's three different types I've seen so far in my time:

First there's the sort that prove Mefustae's point, the ones that are too stupid to be scared. They're mostly the sort that join because every male in their family had been a soldier or had fought in every war before them. I've seen surprisingly few of these though, and they seem to be almost entirely Marines and Army.

Secondly, there's the type that join to get the benefits but are a little more iffy about combat/deployment than the first group. They join for the secure income after they drop out of college and can't find anything else to do. Fortunately most of these don't last long and a fair percentage wash out/are discharged during A School/Tech school.

Then there's the idealists. This is the group of people that joined out of patriotic/borderline nationalist fervor, are looking for a secure job that provides a good environment to raise a family and accept the fact that they will face deployment unlike the second group. Unlike thje first group that looks to deployment for glory, they tend to be the ones who see deployment as their chance to make a difference. They want to be the ones whose work saves lives and stops another terrorist attack.

Fortunately 75% of the folks that I have met during my time have been from the third set, from my Basic Training instructors to the officers out here in California, not to mention most of the new guys I've been with since Basic.
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Offline redsniper

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wait a second, what branch are you in? I've got a friend in the navy out that way.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Is he at San Diego or Monterey?

I'm Air Force at Monterey, DLI.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline redsniper

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Oh, well he's in San Diego so... yeah.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Mars

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Marines or Navy nuclear?

 

Offline redsniper

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I've got a friend in the navy out that way.
not a marine, he's going to be on a boat of some kind. That's all I know.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

  

Offline BlackDove

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In terms of soldiers I believe there's three different types I've seen so far in my time:

First there's the sort that prove Mefustae's point, the ones that are too stupid to be scared. They're mostly the sort that join because every male in their family had been a soldier or had fought in every war before them. I've seen surprisingly few of these though, and they seem to be almost entirely Marines and Army.

Secondly, there's the type that join to get the benefits but are a little more iffy about combat/deployment than the first group. They join for the secure income after they drop out of college and can't find anything else to do. Fortunately most of these don't last long and a fair percentage wash out/are discharged during A School/Tech school.

Then there's the idealists. This is the group of people that joined out of patriotic/borderline nationalist fervor, are looking for a secure job that provides a good environment to raise a family and accept the fact that they will face deployment unlike the second group. Unlike thje first group that looks to deployment for glory, they tend to be the ones who see deployment as their chance to make a difference. They want to be the ones whose work saves lives and stops another terrorist attack.

Fortunately 75% of the folks that I have met during my time have been from the third set, from my Basic Training instructors to the officers out here in California, not to mention most of the new guys I've been with since Basic.

Lulz. Don't believe everything people say.

There is only one reason people join the army. It's always a combo of desperation and boredom (those two ARE one in this case, don't correct me). Desperation being not having any money and a ****ed up family (You don't see the rich kids with proper families volounteering much do ya? No, they have the family business to run, and infest the world with nepotism, or you know, masturbate in school until they're 30) and boredom is usually the part of not knowing what to do with your life and/or failing at most things you do, so you know, might as well join the army since bagging groceries is kind of shameful. Rather die from a bullet if you know what I mean.

Patriotism, benefits, stupidity, and all that are just words that are as worthless as they sound. Excuses to mask the above.

It's one of the reasons the USA pretty much lost every war since WW2. In WW2 everyone was taken to the battlefield, including the intelligent people, the people with rich parents (****, even the rich parents went), extensive educational backgrounds etc. were all in it to win it, and it worked so well because of the smart people. However later on the draft started excluding the college and graduate students, surely the rich as well (in wars that were really about something else completely than what was advertised) until the draft was revoked and only the poor indignant who didn't know any better were given the "choice" to go die in some desert or jungle for no real reason given whatsoever.

Nothing quite like desperation, hunger and lack of prospects to make one sign up. And it's not like this is only in the USA. It's like that over here too. Everywhere really.

It's why kids carry AK-47's in the third world. They start 'em early there, because prospects? Lulz. What prospects.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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No, they have the family business to run, and infest the world with nepotism, or you know, masturbate in school until they're 30
Quote
or you know, masturbate in school until they're 30
Quote
masturbate in school
:yes:
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Offline Hellstryker

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That was incredibly immature and uncalled for.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Then reassess what I might have meant.

(If that will make it look somehow insightful, I guess.)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 11:35:07 pm by Ford Prefect »
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline redsniper

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I counter that education (good education) is a good thing to get and that if more people had one it would probably solve a lot of the problems we're dealing with now.

Unless by "masturbate in school" you mean, "screw around and party and not actually learn anything useful" then I agree totally.

And if you meant something else entirely, then disregard. :nervous:
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."