[Zacam]

Not sure if it is a code or model issue, but I notice that when you show an Insignia on a ship, it is copied on the other side without being flipped.

For some Squad logo's, thats not a problem (242 Suicide Kings, Volition Squadron and some others), but for most of them, it's a littile strange looking because it is a very directional logo (109th Flaming Skulls, 70th Blue Lions, etc). Resolution: understanding a definition for Insignia points. Modeler creates two insignia points. Ins01 take precedence so Ins02 is then flipped horizontally whatever is on Ins01.

Code related though: All Squadron logo usage is defined in single player missions at the beginning of the file. What about reassigning it to the #Wings section?
This way, a Squadron Logo can be assigned to a per wing basis, rather than just to the player ship, using if need be the existing texture replace or something.

Control for it could be done via a squadron.tbl file for Retail Squadron logo's, with Mod's being able to use a custom-sqd.tbm. Increase in immersion factor. And yes, people will notice just as they notice the difference between a normal mapped and non-normal mapped ship. (That, and when people make in-game Glory shots, you will notice it then.)

I realize that a lot of models don't have insignia display any more, newer models are a little broken in how they handle them and probably not a lot of people have a lot of interest in them. However, since Insignias support DDS files (and not just PCX), this opens up a lot of possibility that people way not be using because they are not aware of it. And if it's never fixed, no one will ever want to use it.

(FYI, I am working on making updated remakes of the logo's to DDS. I've already got 6 done with 13 left. They are very nice and I would love for people to see them.)

[Backslash]

Resolution: understanding a definition for Insignia points. Modeler creates two insignia points. Ins01 take precedence so Ins02 is then flipped horizontally whatever is on Ins01.

I think I'm following you here, but just in case... what happens when the logo has text?  Do you mean Ins01 is used on both sides if you don't want it to be flipped?

[Galemp]

Oh, it's no problem having a 'flipped' insignia; all you have to do is invert the normals on the poly where the insignia appears. But, as Backslash mentioned, that would indeed flip it around completely so you'd have backwards text.

[Zacam]

No, as in it is already flipping it. For a logo that has text, one side reads fine, the other side is in reverse.

Which is why the sthor sied needs to flip again.

From the root.vp data\players\squads, extract desquad.pcx. Put it in data\players\squads as 242suicide.pcx. Now, go to the F3 lab and tick "Show Insignia" under Render options. You should be able to read it on both sides. I suppose on some models it works that way, others it doesn't. Which is why I specified that part as not knowing if it was code related or model related. IF there was code to control it, then the above solution might make it easir for modelers, as I've seen textures where only one side is done and then it get's mirrored on the model. Which is fine if there is no text or obvious directionals.

All in all, I am actually more curious about wether or not Insignia's can be applied on a per Wing basis in missions.

[Zacam]

Of course, it would also be helpful if the squadron logo would show in anything other than F3.

[Zacam]

Okay. I,ve had the time to single player and multiplayer test insignia's now. (Default and Custom ones)

Regardless of file format, anything that is NOT 128x128 does not show in the interface. It will show on the model.
This is really relevant if you plan on making a logo that has fine values, requiring a higher resolution. Example of this would be the Suicide Kings Insignia. Using an actual scan of the card, finer lines on the card begin getting lost at 256x256. (Texturing wise, I can understand the argument that 128x128 could be considered too large. However a properly made DDS file only consumes as much space as the filesize. No mip maps at 128^2 w/Alpha is 16kb vs 11kb for 8bit Indexed PCX, so it is only expensive depending on compression type, image size and if it has mip maps.)

And even with the closest possible zoom, which isn't very close, it still becomes obvious. And who's to say Insignia only need to be applied to Fighters/Bombers? Yes, there is or will soon be a functional Texture Replacement function in the code. Doesn't nullify or negate the usability of Insignia on any number of ships for even more visual variety.

There is also no universal insignia scale-to-model for placement amongst the models. So different models could be scaling it at separate sizes. For a DDS image, this would be great if it would utilize the mip-maps, but it doesn't.

Also, zero documentation (that I can find) as to how to implement custom insignia without replacing existing insignia.

And the largest part: In single player, when using a ship that DOES display Squad Insignia, with it defined in the mission (as outlined in it's usage in the original missions), it still does not display. This is also regardless of image format, even though the mission file explicitly calls to the .pcx filename and again, no documention regarding wether or not that field will accept different extensions other than PCX there.

I thing utilizing an insignia.tbl or squadron.tbl that can be expanded via TBM and used either in mission headers or via #Wing sections would be handy.

[CP5670]

And the largest part: In single player, when using a ship that DOES display Squad Insignia, with it defined in the mission (as outlined in it's usage in the original missions), it still does not display.

You have to be running the mission as part of a campaign if you're putting your logo in the "squadron reassign" field. Setting it for a wing should work in the mission simulator though.

The biggest problem here is what you said earlier, that most of the media VP fighter models are lacking insignia data altogether. This should really be fixed at some point. You can easily notice them while playing the game normally. Since the game now allows mission designers to specify them on a per wing basis, there can be several different logos used in the same mission, including even on enemy ships.

[Zacam]

I am almost embarrased to say, I found out why I wasn't seeing them in single player, and it had nothing to do with being through the techroom simulator.

The original missions were calling to the wrong filename.


 And to display on a per wing basis:

$Name: $Wing Name$
+Squad Logo: $logo$.pcx


Okay, well, now that I've not done my homework, I'm going to see what it takes to correct the models lacking in Logo support and see if it is something that I can do.

EDIT: At this point, I think this thread can be moved to the Freespace Upgrade.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Well here's the process (from the FSU internal thread)

Fix wise there's not a lot that can be done about it without the following:
1) Convert to COB
2) Make 2 flat polygons and map a sample insignia logo to them
3) Align them neatly with the ships surface where they don't float or interfere
4) Save and convert to POF again
5) Open original POF, delete insignia data and import data from the new POF

Alternatively you could import the original squad logos from the retail ships, but that usually looks really bad when they start floating or intersecting with the ship. :\