[jdjtcagle]

i don't want to read a book here.  shoot.

is that how atheists work?  they need 6 pages to explain their beliefs? (or lack thereof)?

How many pages is the Bible? More than six? Indeed it is.

all that stuff Trashman said

Are atheists considered evil?

The atheist says to the Christian, 'you are no more than I: no better, no worse. We are equals.'

The Christian says to the atheist, 'because you don't believe what I believe, you will not be saved. You will burn in hell.'

I've said many times before that we are equals

Christianity teaches to treat each other as equals...

[Colonol Dekker]

Even fat people


J/K, it was a bit biased against science (it rhymes wheee) in the olden days but it's one of the less persecutary widespread religions i believe....

[jdjtcagle]

[TrashMan]

It's not a question of 'numbers'  it's a question of history, you don't even have to look very hard at history to find that people saying 'my God is better than your God' have created a lot more wars, misery and suffering than people saying 'God doesn't exist.' - at least unless it involves persecution by those who disagree.

Even with the FAR longer history and number of religious people I'd still challenge that claim.

You know, you really shouldn't ask that question if you yourself are going to answer it and consider it closed without bothering to see if there is any reply.

Why should I wait? It was rethorical. I allready know the answer.

Are atheists considered evil?

The atheist says to the Christian, 'you are no more than I: no better, no worse. We are equals.'

The Christian says to the atheist, 'because you don't believe what I believe, you will not be saved. You will burn in hell.'

You mean more like:

The atheist says to the Christian, 'you are no more than I: no better, no worse. We are equals. But you are either evil or incredibly stupid to believe. Oh, and I'm gonna look down upon you like you are some redneck pesant....because you are.'

Trashman, here's some reasons I would say religion is evil --
*snip*

Is that all? Half of those things aren't evil by a longshot, only you consider them evil. Really, if this is all you got then I have nothing to worry about...

[Flipside]

Is that all? Half of those things aren't evil by a longshot, only you consider them evil.

I don't even know where to begin....

[jdjtcagle]

NOT evil?  You like to hear yourself argue don't you trashman

[Ghostavo]

It's not a question of 'numbers'  it's a question of history, you don't even have to look very hard at history to find that people saying 'my God is better than your God' have created a lot more wars, misery and suffering than people saying 'God doesn't exist.' - at least unless it involves persecution by those who disagree.

Even with the FAR longer history and number of religious people I'd still challenge that claim.

Far longer history? Compared to what? Atheism is far older than any modern religion. One might even be tempted to say it's older than religion itself.

[Nuke]

****, id rather joint the misanthropic luciferian order than read this thread. at least that cult has of good bands attached to it.

[Jeff Vader]

"Everybody knows all the good bands are affiliated with Satan."

[Ford Prefect]

Far longer history? Compared to what? Atheism is far older than any modern religion. One might even be tempted to say it's older than religion itself.

The absence of belief in god is only salient if belief in god is an understood alternative. It's safe to say my cat holds no belief in god, but I wouldn't call him an atheist. (Objections from the animal intelligence lobby will be disregarded.) I don't expect anyone to pay attention to this, but debating which is older is going to carry the discussion to a level of meaninglessness that exceeds even the time-honored "who killed more people?" exchange.

[Ghostavo]

Far longer history? Compared to what? Atheism is far older than any modern religion. One might even be tempted to say it's older than religion itself.

The absence of belief in god is only salient if belief in god is an understood alternative. It's safe to say my cat holds no belief in god, but I wouldn't call him an atheist. (Objections from the animal intelligence lobby will be disregarded.) I don't expect anyone to pay attention to this, but debating which is older is going to carry the discussion to a level of meaninglessness that exceeds even the time-honored "who killed more people?" exchange.

Perhaps, but the lack of concept of god doesn't invalidate non-belief. Unless you define atheism by stating you have no belief in specific gods.

But yes, it may be meaningless to carry such a discussion (hence the tempted bit). The point was that "having a far longer history" is neither a valid excuse or even simply valid.

[General Battuta]

Are atheists considered evil?

The atheist says to the Christian, 'you are no more than I: no better, no worse. We are equals.'

The Christian says to the atheist, 'because you don't believe what I believe, you will not be saved. You will burn in hell.'

Trashman, here's some reasons I would say religion is evil --
*snip*

Is that all? Half of those things aren't evil by a longshot, only you consider them evil. Really, if this is all you got then I have nothing to worry about...

First off, you called me General Butta! How did you manage to do that?

Second, yeah, it's clear from your response that you're just being argumentative. I know you don't honestly believe that half of those things 'aren't really evil.'

I'm content to simply disagree with you, since I see you're pretty much giving up on the argument already.

[Mika]

I don't know if I should write here about this thing, but the story in the beginning was quite twisted. At least from my point of view. Sounds like someone trying too hard to teach religion to someone. Eight years ago in college I had a teacher who taught psychology and religion (a faithful person) and you couldn't help but notice all those little nuances of trying to refer psychological behavior theories to religion... But she never asked something like that to be done - it would have been interesting to see what would have happened. One of the possible outcomes could have been carrying that teacher out in a really long sleeved white shirt - to a really well cushioned room. Note that I have read religion since the third grade to the second class in college (mandatory) and I recall nothing of it!

But, everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs also. It is a personal thing. If you want to live as a hermit in a cave you're free to go. Just don't expect everybody to follow.That being said, I'm personally fed up with these vocal preachers belonging to any religious group. Especially after the experiences I have wrote about here before.

I see there are some Christian people here, one thing I have always wondered is that why is it so that I need to believe in Christian God in order to be saved, if heaven existed? Suppose I lead a respectful life helping society in a multitude of ways not established by Church  - or more accurately established but in actuality not practised - what is actually my crime to spend the rest of eternity in Hell? Or, what if I hadn't ever heard of Christianity? Would I go to hell no matter what?

[Finnish anti-authority attitude]
My final question is that why is it so that I need to worship some deity if I otherwise lead a life which would closely follow the rules given by this deity, but never think about getting to heaven when facing choices.
[/Finnish anti-authority attitude]

Which one is actually more honest, the person who does good deeds in order to get himself up to heaven, or the one who leads the good life never even thinking about going to heaven? For me, the former is selfish. This is the question that converted me out of any religion, actually.

And yeah, you could read between the lines that there could be a tint of Religion bashing involved. I apologise about that, but at least I recognise the possibility myself and admit it. Besides if I really wanted to slam Christianity or Religion in general, it would be hitting somewhere where I actually know it would hurt, but let's not go there.

Mika

[G0atmaster]

At last, a place where I can jump back in!

I see there are some Christian people here, one thing I have always wondered is that why is it so that I need to believe in Christian God in order to be saved, if heaven existed? Suppose I lead a respectful life helping society in a multitude of ways not established by Church  - or more accurately established but in actuality not practised - what is actually my crime to spend the rest of eternity in Hell? Or, what if I hadn't ever heard of Christianity? Would I go to hell no matter what?

[Finnish anti-authority attitude]
My final question is that why is it so that I need to worship some deity if I otherwise lead a life which would closely follow the rules given by this deity, but never think about getting to heaven when facing choices.
[/Finnish anti-authority attitude]

 

This is a very good point.  Paul (one of the authors of the books of the Bible) touched on it a lot, in a way.  He was speaking to the Jews about how they knew the Laws of God, and yet refused to follow them, whereas the Gentiles (basically all non-Jewish peoples)  didn't know the laws, and yet followed them.  He was responding to the Jewish belief that because they were "God's chosen people," they were somehow in an advantageous position as far as getting into Heaven, when in fact, the Gentiles were more than them.

However, as it stands, there is not one of us that is completely innocent of some crime that makes us incapable of standing before God.  If it were possible for a person to live a life not knowing any form of evil, any form of selfishness, deceit, hatred, etc., then Christ would not be necessary.  A person isn't condemned to Hell because they don't believe in Christ.  A person is condemned to Hell because they are wicked thieves, liars, etc. etc. etc.  If you don't accept the grace of Christ, you are doing the equivalent of turning down a plea bargain in which the charges against you are dropped, yet it is not your refusal of the plea bargain that you are sent to jail for.

Which one is actually more honest, the person who does good deeds in order to get himself up to heaven, or the one who leads the good life never even thinking about going to heaven? For me, the former is selfish. This is the question that converted me out of any religion, actually.

This is another good point.  Let me just clear up this misconception:  Christianity is not about good deeds.  Christianity looks at humanity as being long past the point of being able to climb a ladder that will somehow get us to Heaven.  Christianity accepts that humanity is imperfect to the point of death, yet offers us a way out.  Christianity (true Christianity) is unique in that, instead of expecting us to reach up to God, God reaches down to us.  All that we do from that point on is out of a love for a God that so loves us, He paid for our crimes out-of-pocket.

And yeah, you could read between the lines that there could be a tint of Religion bashing involved. I apologise about that, but at least I recognise the possibility myself and admit it. Besides if I really wanted to slam Christianity or Religion in general, it would be hitting somewhere where I actually know it would hurt, but let's not go there.

Not at all.  You have very valid and understandable questions.  They ran through my head as well.


And with that, I conclude this post with a link to a video made by a friend of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msJrL7o6RpU

[Stealth]

i get a kick out of reading some of these responses

[TrashMan]

First off, you called me General Butta! How did you manage to do that?

Second, yeah, it's clear from your response that you're just being argumentative. I know you don't honestly believe that half of those things 'aren't really evil.'

I'm content to simply disagree with you, since I see you're pretty much giving up on the argument already.

Sry, didn't hit the quote bottun, but rather typed it in manually and made a type or two.

And, no, I'm not being argumentative.  I really don't believe half of those things evil.
For example -  women not becoming priests - it's part of tradition, not because the Church thinks women are any less capable of the job or less worth.
Groups and institutions have some rules they set up - it's their rules and  they have a right to those rules even if you don't like them. It's no big deal.

[General Battuta]

Difference of beliefs.

I consider any discrimination on the basis of gender to be evil, through and through.

Sometimes people say 'women should not be in these jobs because they aren't physically fit enough', but there are other ways to decide that -- physical fitness exams, in this case. Obviously, the priesthood doesn't fall under these requirements anyway.

I know you think differently. I'm not going to try to convert you.

[Scuddie]

your FACE is evil!!!

[G0atmaster]

Scuddie, I ask that you keep unnecessarily ridiculous and un-beneficial comments to yourself.  Unless you want me to start posting bumper-sticker-Christianity quotes in all your forum topics.

[Scuddie]

Yes, you're right.  The whole of this thread is unnecessarily ridiculous and un-beneficial by itself already.