[NGTM-1R]

You're never an idiot for what you believe.

You're an idiot for persisting in the error long after reasoned argument has demolished all possible support for your posistion. This is something that's actually quite difficult to accomplish.

[General Battuta]

now in america and probably of other places in the world, its better to be a minority than it is to be white, just because of the number of these polices currently in law. and whenever a white person objects they are immediately thought of as a racist. i think this sort of thing just makes the problem worse, not better.

I must say, I've read a large amount of scholarship -- economic, political, and psychological -- about why this is entirely untrue. I just thought it shouldn't go over unchallenged.

Many minorities still suffer crippling disadvantages in spite of any and all affirmative action.

[NGTM-1R]

The problem with that statement is that there are places in the US where the white population is now the minority, or has been for some time, but don't recieve any special dispensation for it. Take LA for example. The NAACP actually tried to get the city's laws rewritten to exclude whites from minority protections when they became a minority in the city. That's reverse discrimination in its purest form.

[Flipside]

Problem is, what is called in the UK 'Positive Discrimination' causes resentment. The example that is always given is this:

If someone in a UK firm wants to create a 'Black Women's society', this is fine and good and anyone who complains is in trouble.

If someone in a UK firm wants to create a 'White Women's society', this is racist and prejudiced and should be blocked at all costs.

These rules end up creating far more resentment than they cure.

It may positive, but it's still discrimination.

[General Battuta]

Oh, I don't want to defend positive discrimination/affirmative action. A just world would be a world in which race didn't matter.

I just wanted to point out that minorities (in the common usage of the term), and even women, are still very disadvantaged.

[BloodEagle]

The problem with that statement is that there are places in the US where the white population is now the minority, or has been for some time, but don't recieve any special dispensation for it. Take LA for example. The NAACP actually tried to get the city's laws rewritten to exclude whites from minority protections when they became a minority in the city. That's reverse discrimination in its purest form.

Do you have a source for this? I really want to show it to a few (several thousand) people. 

[Mars]

I think class based Affirmative Action is a good idea...

I just don't think race should enter into it.

The trouble is, you can't just ask all the people involved to vote against what amounts to cheap college for them.

[blowfish]

The only way to stop racism completely is to stop seeing race entirely.  That would not really be easy to achieve though.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The only way to stop racism completely is to stop seeing race entirely.  That would not really be easy to achieve though.

...or view the entire human species as a single race.

Look at what this guy has to say about race. If I were him, I think I would consider myself to be Shivan.

[NGTM-1R]

The problem with that statement is that there are places in the US where the white population is now the minority, or has been for some time, but don't recieve any special dispensation for it. Take LA for example. The NAACP actually tried to get the city's laws rewritten to exclude whites from minority protections when they became a minority in the city. That's reverse discrimination in its purest form.

Do you have a source for this? I really want to show it to a few (several thousand) people. 

Try editions of the LA Times from several years ago.

[Scuddie]

...or view the entire human species as a single race.

It doesn't work that way.  Basic entry-level biology will teach you why.  It is only the naive and the ignorant who would ever think otherwise.

[Nuke]

...or view the entire human species as a single race.

It doesn't work that way.  Basic entry-level biology will teach you why.  It is only the naive and the ignorant who would ever think otherwise.

gotta agree there. racism is caused because of the way the human mind works, while you can still be as fair as your higher reasoning functions allow,. your still controlled by those low level instinctual impulses to stay with your own kind.

[jdjtcagle]

Our intelligence allows us to live above 'most' instincts.  The only prejudice instincts you should hang on to is for safety concerns for your family and yourselves.  Other than that we shouldn't pretend we don't have the brains to suppress 'primitive instincts.'

That just sounds like an justification for being racist.

[Nuke]

then you run into the problem that most people dont use their brains. theres not a damn thing you can do to make people use their brains, they will or they wont. i mean using your brain to be fair might be a good idea, but when reality sets in its not such an effective solution. being fair may not be at the top of your concerns if your poor and have to work really hard just to survive. mammalian instincts of self and family preservation will see to that. but then you still have the primal reptilian instincts of the lower brain to contend with. turns out you have 2 regions of the brain saying be racist, and only one saying not to.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

In short, what you're trying to say is that racism is here to stay, whether we like it or not.

[Scuddie]

Racism is just one of an infinite number of prejudices we as human beings exhibit.  Yes, it's here to stay.  No, nobody cares.  It's much easier to acknowledge it and move on to something else than to spend any time dwelling on a topic that is this blatantly retarded.

Just for the record...  Yes, I see color.  I also see age, sex, sexual orientation, religion, weight, strength, speech, intelligence, attitude, location, origin, nationality, political affiliation, height, hair color, eye color, taste in music, taste in dress, and half a billion other things I can't recall off the top of my head.  And anyone who claims they do not see any of these is a liar.

[Bobboau]

gotta agree there. racism is caused because of the way the human mind works, while you can still be as fair as your higher reasoning functions allow,. your still controlled by those low level instinctual impulses to stay with your own kind.

fortunately "your own kind" is not something wired into the lower level, how you figure it out is sure, but if you grow up in an environment were there is no notice payed to race then you will not notice it.

anyway, "tolerance" is the cancer that is destroying western civilization.

[jdjtcagle]

Racism is just one of an infinite number of prejudices we as human beings exhibit.  Yes, it's here to stay.  No, nobody cares.  It's much easier to acknowledge it and move on to something else than to spend any time dwelling on a topic that is this blatantly retarded.

Just for the record...  Yes, I see color.  I also see age, sex, sexual orientation, religion, weight, strength, speech, intelligence, attitude, location, origin, nationality, political affiliation, height, hair color, eye color, taste in music, taste in dress, and half a billion other things I can't recall off the top of my head.  And anyone who claims they do not see any of these is a liar.

Prejudice is not discrimination...

"blatanly retarded?"  You know how many people are killed trough racism, right? (you do live in CA, a fair generalization?) How is that "retarded?"
 
You guys might feel like your just a bunch of puppets controlled by internal (genes, morality, ect.) and external ("outside") influences.  No free will just controlled in every aspect of your life.  It's different, you decide when to take control.  Yes it's your brain tell it what to act on.  We inherently are evil but we don't have to just give in and accepted that.

I told this story before but, if there is a man at the edge of a cliff and hypothetically there are a bunch of dominoes hitting one another until they eventually reach the man on the cliff pushing off to his death, then did he commit suicide?  No, he was obviously pushed.  Now think of those dominoes as the internal (genes, morality, ect.) and external ("outside") forces of everyday life, does it make a difference?

gotta agree there. racism is caused because of the way the human mind works, while you can still be as fair as your higher reasoning functions allow,. your still controlled by those low level instinctual impulses to stay with your own kind.

anyway, "tolerance" is the cancer that is destroying western civilization.

So your intolerant of tolerant people...? Intolerance is killing our society...

Here's a story...
of my friends are athiest and of them considered themselves rebels against society. They thought that of the "christians" around here were intolerant of them.  I wore a suit and carried around a bible, I was ridiculed at first because they saw me as conservative and they were very prejudice towards me.  Untill I let them rationalized that I was the only one wearing a suit and that I was going against what everyone else (even what they) accepted as tolerable making me a rebel just like them.  They realized that they were the ones that were being intolerant of me because of their prejudice.  Once they got to know me, they realized that even though I didn't do of the things they did, I was friendly and didn't consider myself any better than them. Which created respect between us. 

I was a rebel in my own way and didn't mind being the outcast but was true to who I claimed to be, actions speak louder than words.
So we can call one side intolerant but when it comes down to it we are the ones that need to be tolerant.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

gotta agree there. racism is caused because of the way the human mind works, while you can still be as fair as your higher reasoning functions allow,. your still controlled by those low level instinctual impulses to stay with your own kind.

fortunately "your own kind" is not something wired into the lower level, how you figure it out is sure, but if you grow up in an environment were there is no notice payed to race then you will not notice it.

anyway, "tolerance" is the cancer that is destroying western civilization.

I think tolerance is more of a melting pot than cancer.

By the way, Bobboau, I like your beams, especially the Shivan ones.

[Flipside]

In order to be tolerant, you have to realise the possibility for intolerance.

It's like the UK government going, 'You see those people? See how their skins are different colours, and they have different cultures and religions? See how they dress differently and talk differently? If you so much as notice this, we will land on you like a ton of bricks, so we want you to be very aware of who is different, so that you don't point out that they are different.'