[Mika]

Sit down, this is going to get heavy.

It seems that the mighty and all-knowing justice department has done it again: there is now a law which will effectively criminalize even reading of basically all movie and music discs in Linux and Mac systems in Finland. How did it end this way?

I'll try to refer the situation here, other Finns may correct wherever it goes wrong:
--------------------
The case is based on the former idiotism in the copy protection law that was ratified a couple of years ago. Two guys did source code for circumventing the CSS level protection in Linux. This enabled users to play legally owned DVDs in Linux, but did not provide any tools for copying of the contents. They, working under free source code Linux world, also released this in the internet.

When the new copy protection law (dubbed Lex Karpela) came in effect, these two guys gave themselves in for the justice department, after realising what they had done had became criminalized activity due to the new law since they distributed the copyprotection cracking stuff. They did this partly to show the stupidity of the new copyright law, expecting that the justice department sees the error in the law.

Surprisingly, a prosecutor came up with a case against these two guys. In the lower level of court, the charges were dropped since the CSS decryption was necessary to play commercial DVDs in Linux, and, according to jury, this was covered by the requirement of the new law that the buyer should be able to use the contents of the copyprotected disc. But it didn't stop there.

The prosecutor then complained about the decision to the highest court, and, it appears that the highest court has reversed the decision. This is since CSS is taken to be a strong decryption mechanism that, according to the Lex Karpela, cannot be distributed.

Even though Finnish court system is based only on the written law, not on the first cases like in UK for example, one cannot help but to think that this is a decision which basically says that even playing that movie DVD in Linux or Mac is illegal from this on since the CSS has to be decrypted before showing the contents.
----End referring.

This whole stuff is completely against my spirit of justice since it can't be so that you can play DVDs in Windows but not in Linux if you own them, and I do wonder how the hell did get to this? Also note that the new law cannot make downloading stuff from internet illegal, only uploading copyrighted stuff and means to crack those protections are illegal. So, what is the actual juridical difference between Windows pre-installed decryption software and the internet distributed decryption software?

So, this means that the Linux and Mac users cannot legally play copyprotected DVD or CD, so they have to resort to "other means", meaning that the Lex Karpela has actually made those honest people to turn to pirated stuff. Also note that the same law requires that if stuff is copyprotected, the DVD producers then give means to read the content, but this has not materialized in Linux or in Mac for that matter.

But then, everybody knows no-one will be able to control this and that the law cannot be uphold in practise. So the question is, why was the law then passed? Also, it seems that there are several Universities in Finland that have contributed to the distribution of that violating code since that has came packed with the Linux operating systems they have been giving to students.

This stuff seriously makes one wonder the high-technology nation Finland appears in international media. If juries, ministers and members of parliament are such idiots that they couldn't see the problems this law causes, my personal feeling is that at minimum they should all be kicked out from their jobs - and this is coming from a person who works under government organisation! I'm starting to wonder how much it will take until someone does the Bobrikovs again, there has been so much idiotic fooling around in the political world in recent two months here. Makes you wonder how much they were paid this time by record industry. Personally I cannot believe what I'm seeing.

For those proficient in one of the most preserving languages in world can find the stuff, for example, here:
http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/+Dvd%3An+katselu+Linux-koneessa+muuttui+rikolliseksi/200814212/66

Mika

[colecampbell666]

Wow. This is like the OOXML thing, Microsoft getting a monopoly. I don't see how this affects macs, unless it's something applicable to BSD.

[Kosh]

Looks like the copywrite nazis have struck in Finland. What is the real reason for them doing this?

[Asuko]

I think it was a collective use of inflammatory adjectives and/or adverbs that led to the law being passed. Hell, lets throw in some verbs. "This *adverbing* use of DVDs is illegal!"

[captain-custard]

Wow. This is like the OOXML thing, Microsoft getting a monopoly. I don't see how this affects macs, unless it's something applicable to BSD.

mac and linux re both unix based............

[castor]

Yea, they've dropped the ball again.
Kind of funny too.. Finns are considered quite law abiding people, generally, and things like this are ONLY good for changing that.
An efficient way to ruin the credibility of a justice system? => Create laws that never could or will be enforced.

[colecampbell666]

Wow. This is like the OOXML thing, Microsoft getting a monopoly. I don't see how this affects macs, unless it's something applicable to BSD.

mac and linux re both unix based............

That's what I was talking about. Although Mac is slightly different, being BSD (closer to Unix) based.

[Mika]

Yea, they've dropped the ball again.
Kind of funny too.. Finns are considered quite law abiding people, generally, and things like this are ONLY good for changing that.
An efficient way to ruin the credibility of a justice system? => Create laws that never could or will be enforced.

Yeah, this time they have screwed up. I need to ask company's lawyer about using DVDs on Linux computers that are used in measurement set-ups tomorrow. It will be interesting to hear their answer.

Also, I heard that the law makes it illegal to download copyrighted material from the internet. Makes one wonder how do they keep track of what is being downloaded and if that is illegal.

Mika

[Herra Tohtori]

Correction.

Finns - like people in general by the way -  obey laws as long as the laws fit in their sense of legitimacy. Risk of getting caught has a negligible effect on activities that are banned by law that is deemed unjust. In general you could say that people always do what they feel, and if a law doesn't fit into general concensus of justice, it's simply ignored.

Perfect example would be the prohibition law in pretty much everywhere it's been introduced. People just don't care about the law, despite the risk of legal consequences.

Same applies to all this copyright crap. With the addition that this kind of laws are quite obviously beyond any means of control by authorities, which makes them little more than words on paper.


As to why crap like this pops up in Finland of all places is because despite our general reputation as high-tech country, the members of parliament - and consequently government - are almost through the field middle-aged people who might have reasonable knowledge of state mechanics, economy and other things relevant to people in governing bodies. Unfortunately this also means that very few of them people in Finnish parliament have any significant knowledge or experience regarding computers and information technology in general, which makes them easy to lead on by - for example - copyright lobbyists and "think-of-the-children"-types.


A few good examples of the most recent stuff they've been up to regarding information technology, computers and Internet are the so-dubbed Lex Karpela - which as it seems to be interpreted, makes Windows the only legitimate way to read "copy-protected" DVD's - and the more recent law to introduce "voluntary Internet censorship" for ISP's to enforce if they so choose, on the pretense of making kiddie porn inaccessible and thus hinder it's spreading, which is pretty much ridiculous idea and does more harm than good as it definitely won't stop any scumbags, and has already been used to prevent freedom of speech as the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation placed a Finnish blog on the list because the page had a partial list of the blocked sites, of which more than 99% have no kiddie porn in them, thus making more knowledgeable people think that both the list in general, and the blog site's inclusion in it are about 99.5% arbitrary and in case of the blog, more based on opinion than actual site content.

/rant over

I won't even go into the law that prohibits the attempts of manufacturing narcotics (like growing cannabis) - even a failed attempt is hypothetically a crime... which mens, for example, that trying to make clay pots for the purpose of growing cannabis is a criminal act.

Find the logical faults in that if you want. It's just another one of the laws that don't make any sense to begin with, are impossible to enforce and that make absolutely no difference in behaviour of people who want to break laws.

[Mika]

I haven't heard much about the new voluntary censorship by the ISPs. This starts to sound like a way to curb the internet reporting.

Regarding some laws in general, I find that at least partly the laws holding the self-defence are at error, narcotics laws do nothing to stop the spread of the stuff.

The more efficient way of stopping the drugs ruining lives would be a (walled) zone where one could get as much clean, free drugs as one could ever wish, injected straight to the vein. Then there would be support should one like to get out of the hook, so to speak. Also, then applying capital punishment for street selling/using of drugs (excluding alcohol) would effectively kill the problem, at least from my pont of view. But I would like to see a politician that has enough guts to propose this. It is the good old "catch son smoking cigars and make him smoke a dozen at the same time" type solution.

Mika

[Mika]

As to why crap like this pops up in Finland of all places is because despite our general reputation as high-tech country, the members of parliament - and consequently government - are almost through the field middle-aged people who might have reasonable knowledge of state mechanics, economy and other things relevant to people in governing bodies. Unfortunately this also means that very few of them people in Finnish parliament have any significant knowledge or experience regarding computers and information technology in general, which makes them easy to lead on by - for example - copyright lobbyists and "think-of-the-children"-types.

Correction.

I find that majority of MPs are incompetent in their work and lack common sense. Let this country be a shining example why you shouldn't vote sportsmen, beauty contestants and financial criminals to the parliament. I still cannot believe how they got through! Finns have a short memory, it seems.

It is no surprise then that laws like these are passed, if the deciders have no idea of IT technology, what they have themselves pushed to be developed - and at the same time are doing all that they can to stop it being developed here, unintentionally though!

Mika

[Davros]

what is it with finland,
you have no pirate party like sweden
you have no native breed of parrot like norway
your becomming the laughing stock of scandanavia

[colecampbell666]

[Jeff Vader]

you have no pirate party like sweden

Oi! We have one. At least I think we have.

[Mika]

what is it with finland,
you have no pirate party like sweden
you have no native breed of parrot like norway
your becomming the laughing stock of scandanavia

In my humble opinion it is exactly the lack of those that will keep us from becoming the laughing stock of Scandinavia.

The real laughing stock of Scandinavia was, is, and will forever be Sweden. This title is awarded for things that I cannot mention here to preserve good relationship in the Western border (the real reason is that one of the moderators is Swedish) - let's just say that there are enough of them.

Mika

[colecampbell666]

(the real reason is that one of the moderators is Swedish)

Who? And BlackDove's a Swede, so you can laugh at him.

[Jeff Vader]

Moderators aren't that bad. And if you were referring to administrators, Windrunner doesn't seem to be one anymore, hmm.