[mr.pancakes]

I hope this is the right place to post this (forgive me if it's not), but I was wondering if it would be possible to make an 'upgraded' Herc-1.

Although the Herc MK II is replacing the Herc-1, why would the GTVA just phase out the Herc-1?  Why not take the existing equipment, and provide some sort of modernizing to it.  Like a Hercules-M (M = Modernized), or Hercules-R (R = Retrofit).

The Herc-1 already has a ton of guns on it, so the improvement would probably be to speed, or missile banks, or both.  Speed seems more likely (IMO) to upgrade, rather the missile banks.  Basically my rationale is, increasing missile capacity just requires either smaller missiles, OR adding more volume to the internal magazine.... which would make an already big ship.. bigger (and pretty much something akin to an Ares).  The engine upgrade, on the other hand, would only require replacement key parts with more modernized and efficient ones, to add speed... along with maybe an additional set of maneuvering thrusters to increase turn rate.

Of course... if you could reduce the engine size, perhaps you could increase the magazine size at the same time.  Getting increased speed and missiles.

I'm not sure what the best combination is, I'm just throwing the idea out there as an alternative to the Herc-1s becoming scrap metal in the freespace story after capella...

[Akalabeth Angel]

Isn't giving it advanced weaponry an upgrade in itself?

And really how many are left? Most seemed to be in NTF employ, and the NTF didn't do so hot (ie got their butts kicked). If there's only a handful of Hercules Mk1s left, would they worth upgrading? Maybe as a stopgap while hte GTVA rebuilds from civil war with the NTF and a royal butt kicking courtesy of the Shivans but Freespace doesnt seem to be in the habit of upgrading obsolete fighters beyond weapon compatibility.

[terran_emperor]

Well, the way i see it there are 3 options...

1) Mothball the remaing Herc mk1s

2) Scrap or caniballize them for parts/material or repairs

3)Completly overhaul them and make them make them the personal fighters of SpOps elites
addendum to 3: SpOps pilots with these upgraded Herc 1s can customize them as needed...-This could be done with some fancy FREDing and/or
TBL hacking, but would be extra-effective if some if each custom job used a different model...

Suggest use of the various existing Herc based fan models + your own if you want to make them

[Polpolion]

Let's think about this:

Things needing to be done on the Herc I to upgrade:
1) New reactor
2) Overhauled weapons systems to accomodate new technology
3) More space added for more missiles
4) Avionics upgrade (likely)
5) Revamp the chassie(sp?) that was built to house 32 year old equipment
6) Install new sheilding systems
7) Addition of reflective armor (or whatever it is) to offer more protection against flak or beams or something.
The list goes on...

They're definitly better off scrapping the old Herc Is and just designing a brand new fighter. Those 32 year old fighters are just going to keep raising problems until they're put out of use.

[Gregster2k]

They're definitly better off scrapping the old Herc Is and just designing a brand new fighter. Those 32 year old fighters are just going to keep raising problems until they're put out of use.

Well there is the ludicrously armored GTF Ares, but to truly fill the Herc's shoes it could either go on a diet, or maybe the Ares' powerplant could do with having two more engines strapped to the thing.

I see what you're getting at though, you want to see an original Herc in modern day design...well...er..the only thing I can think of IS an Ares, actually, but it's too different from the Herc 1 (it's way slower and way more heavily armored). Maybe if an Ares had its armor and missile capacity reduced to nearly Herc 1 levels, it would perform as a "modernized Herc 1"?

[Droid803]

The Ares isn't really that much slower than a Herc.

[Jake2447]

Both the Herc I and the Ares top out at 50m/s

Herc I:
Rotation - 4.0, 4.5, 4.0
Accel - 3.0
Max Speed - 64
Afterburner -
        +Aburn Max Vel: 0.0, 0.0, 120.0
   +Aburn For accel: 0.7
   +Aburn Fuel: 300.0
   +Aburn Burn Rate: 60.0
   +Aburn Rec Rate: 25.0

Ares:
Rotation - 4.5, 5.0, 4.0
Accel - 2.4
Max Speed - 62
Afterburner -
        +Aburn Max Vel: 0.0, 0.0, 120.0
   +Aburn For accel:       0.7
   +Aburn Fuel:            300.0
   +Aburn Burn Rate:       62.0
   +Aburn Rec Rate:        35.0

They're pretty much the same speed.
Herc has higher top and burns fuel slightly slower, but Ares recovers fuel faster and has better acceleration.

[varsaigen]

I say that ist needs to be less bulky. I notice that as history goes on, things get smaller. And that includes their weapon (guns size), not to mention other equipement like shields, reactors, and engines.

[Droid803]

Yeah, but the Ares kicks ass.
Its a self-propelled missile turret at its best.

[mr.pancakes]

I'm not talking about a complete overhall, as some people seem to think.

Think of it like the difference between an T-72, and the upgraded T-72s.  There are several upgrade packages for the T-72 tank which upgrade the electronics and add armor and a few other bells and whistles to it to increase performance a little.

I'm talking about a upgrade package, not an overhall.

[Droid803]

Why do a minor upgrade when a completely new ship class would be more cost-efficient and effective?
The older things get, the more prone to breakdowns they are. The more times you do a minor upgrade, the more chance tehre is that something just doesn't click and you end up with nothing but a waste of time. It happened with the Typhon, which is why the Zods stopped using them.

[varsaigen]

Yep, Droid's right on this one. Great job Droid!

[mr.pancakes]

Why do a minor upgrade when a completely new ship class would be more cost-efficient and effective?
The older things get, the more prone to breakdowns they are. The more times you do a minor upgrade, the more chance tehre is that something just doesn't click and you end up with nothing but a waste of time. It happened with the Typhon, which is why the Zods stopped using them.

Why do an upgrade?  Limited resources, mainly.

I could envision the NTF trying something like that since their construction capacity isn't that of the GTVA.  Creating an upgrade package for the Herc-1s might be more realistic for them to increase their fighting ability.

[varsaigen]

Then the NTF should focus on increasing the hull armourm abd firpower of the herc. Not to mention the speed. I am able to demolish the herc's way too easily.

[Droid803]

Well, you could do some customizations like strap extra armor on, or strap external engines on or something if you'ret hat desperate, but I doubt any well-established government (namely the GTVA) would bother to do that, as they do have the resources to design and construct new models. However, the NTF is notably less well established, being a rebellion and all, and I guess you could get the source for the HTL Herc, slap extra armor plating, and maybe a few more engines on.

They would definitely not preform as well as all-new models like the Herc-II and and Ares, though.

[Jake2447]

Well, you could do some customizations like strap extra armor on, or strap external engines on or something if you'ret hat desperate, but I doubt any well-established government (namely the GTVA) would bother to do that, as they do have the resources to design and construct new models. However, the NTF is notably less well established, being a rebellion and all, and I guess you could get the source for the HTL Herc, slap extra armor plating, and maybe a few more engines on.

They would definitely not preform as well as all-new models like the Herc-II and and Ares, though.

hopefully it would at least be bolted on
then again, there's nothing like duct tape 

[varsaigen]

lol. duct tape fixes everything.

[mr.pancakes]

I was thinking more like a partial engine replacement.  The herc already has a ton of gun mounts.  It really needs some more speed/maneuverability.

And as far as adding armor goes, perhaps some sort of sprayed on reinforced armor to harden the outer shell or dissipate energy/heat.  Perhaps even something like ERA plating for T-72 tanks as an anti-missile system in addition to countermeasures.  (Although, a herc with ERA plating would look like an armadillo...... <_< )

[varsaigen]

or, a mirror like coating. It'll blind the other pilots and they won't be able to see anything. Meaning, they can't tell what the "light" will do! >=D

[Snail]

Yeah, then they get vaped in nebulas because they stick out like sore thumbs.

Seriously, that sounds like something from Doctor Who.