[AlphaOne]

=)) that has got to be the most hilarious thing i ever heard. No insult meant.

Its just that the gouverment here doesnt really listed to the people.  I mean no matter what the people want unless the gouverment and parliament can benefit in some ways from it they wont take action.

The gouverment ic corupt and so is the justice sistem.

Sending such a letter would only provoke laughter. Noone reads or cares about what i or anyone lese has to say believe me. we tried.

Hell even the Airforce voiced they objections and were quickly silenced .

The press belongs well the majority of the press belongs to 2 or 3 people in the parliament.

So basicly they controll what we see hear and almost what we think. Good thing for the internet.

As an example of what the sistem is all about romanian citizens are forbiden to bring law suit cases to the International courts unless they can prove to a romanian court that the judge ruling was not fair.

this measure was taken by the former gouvernment because romania has LOST EVERY SINLGE CASE where romanian citizens brought the gouvernment decisions or actions to trial.

Romania has not won a single lawsuit to this day. And there are hundreds solved and several thousand pending investigation.

So basicly that is why the vast majority of the ppl. dont trust the gouvernment structures inclueding police judges parliament etc.

In fact the parliament and the police and the justice sistem in general have about a total of less then 40% trust from the population. that is total not separate.

Separate i believe there is something 21% +another 17% dont remeber exactly.

The army has about 70% .

that is why i have no love of politicians . In fact i dont believe they are even worthy of beeing called humans. No politician should be alowed to subject his our country to such economical harships. No to mention make such bad decision that affect the security of the nation.


Only here does a politician acused and proved to be traitor for divulging state secrets , is allowed to walk away hads free.

this really is the land of all posibilities. America doesnt hold a candle next to us. =))

[neo_hermes]

sounds like your politicans are really...idiots..

[IceFire]

Shame...I was hoping Romania would give the Saab Gripen a chance.  Its an excellent Gen 4+ like the Rafael and Typhoon but cheaper and built for harsh conditions. Sounds like it would have been a great choice.  The latest version that Saab is offering up seems like a fantastic aircraft.

Its too bad.

I think Saab seems to be offering a fantastic package that nobody is biting due to politics.

[AlphaOne]

Yeah i know what you mean.



I understand that there must be some sort of political controll over the armed forces but too much influence from the politicians leads to such dizatrouos consequences.

However all is not completely lost. I mean there are still about 2 week left before in 100% official.

If by that time the prime minister holds true to his word that he will not permit SH planes to be aquired for the armed forces then we might still have a chance.

I mean the guy all of a sudden decided that for the 5 billion dolars they originaly wanted to spend on new planes they want to buy planes attack helicopters radars APC's and a truck load of other stuff for the army. I mean the original plans for the next 2-5 years was for a 10 billion euros spending and aquiring new tech and equipment.

And that was just for the beginning. the total spending for the next 15-20 years was for over 20 billion euros. on equipment alone. nothing else.

The Saab really is a more formidable machine when compared.

And if the final decision can be influeced by the prime minister then we should be able to buy Saab's !

And there is something even more important if we decide to buy planes from Saab 48 brand new ones they are offering a 100%+ offset for us.

Inclueding the aquisition of our own airplane factory where the planes will be partialy build maintained and serviced. Inclueding trainging etc.

Lockeed doesnt offer anithing even close to that.

[Mobius]

Romania is one hell of a country(in a good way!). Its economical improvements are impressive.

I heard of an article of the British who criticized Italy's economical progress compared to the progress of other European nations, claiming that Romania will "overtake" us in a matter of years. An Italian journalist replied to the article claiming that after a few years Romania will "overtake" the UK, too. Let's say that Romania is the EU's little China.

IMO the RoAF should try to get modern planes like the EF-2000(as an European country it shouldn't be difficult to join the EF project) or the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35(the Russian Federation might sell this kind of fighters to India in the future, why wouldn't the RoAF get some as well?).

[MarkN]

IMO the RoAF should try to get modern planes like the EF-2000(as an European country it shouldn't be difficult to join the EF project) or the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35(the Russian Federation might sell this kind of fighters to India in the future, why wouldn't the RoAF get some as well?).

These things cost far more than Romania seems willing to spend, so are not an option. As for joining the EF project, that would be quite difficult as the project is over, and the result, the Typhoon, is in use.

[Mobius]

Is the Meteor and other aspects of the EF-2000 development over, too? The Typhoon is intended to remain in service for about 40 years and like the F-4 and the MiG-21 it will be upgraded continuously.

Air Forces are tending to prefer quality over quantity. With the arrival of the Typhoon, in fact, the Luftwaffe will be radically reducing the number of fighters.

What about the Gripen? It has STOL capabilities and many other features that help with maintenance, if I remember well. It means that its use would require small bases and limited costs.

[IceFire]

Indeed the Gripen was designed from the outset to be able to operate from roads and semi-prepared fields.  The Swedish defense plan seems to revolve around dealing with any invasion or attack by dispersing forces from regular bases to hidden ones and then operating from places where the enemy seems it would be unlikely to do so.  So its got STOL capability as a result and is designed to be tough...probably tougher than the other competitors.

I'm not sure how the Gripen holds up against the competition but its a pretty solid entry.  But I don't think Sweden and SAAB have the political clout.

[AlphaOne]

@Mobious : IF Romanias GIP continues to rise at the saame level it has been dooing these past few years then we will catch up and perhaps surpass some of the older european countryes.

However we still have a problem with the inflation rate which for this year is suposed to be somwhere at aroun 6 or 7 % which is still rather high . But they are working on reducing the inflation rate.

And considering our GIP doubled in the last 10 or 15 years i would say that is a preatty good economical performance.

As for the Eurofighter IF we had the money to actualy buy them I mean we can buy them even now but that is just refering to the planes alone nothing else. No armamaments no simulators no nothing. That would cost us another 1 or 2 billion euros or so. Thats about 3 or so billion dolars.

The original budget spending for new planes was suposed to be about 9 or 10 billion euros. Sure not just planes inclueding armamaments training simulators the works inclueding some radars and AAAF missile bateries.

However that budget has been reduced significantly. it now stands at about 4 or 5 billion euros .

The Eurofighter is a great piece of machienary comparable to the F-22 . While they are not the same they are both the most advaned and capable fighters in the world.

While the F-22 was designed for stealth and BVR engagements the Eurofighter is designed for extreme manouverabilaty and dogfighting at supersonic speeds even and beeing a multirole plane . It has some stealth abilaties but not as advanced as the F-22 .

However the Rafalle would of been second on my choice for planes since its comparable in performance and tech and price to the EF .

Saab would be the 3-rd and perhaps the most cost efective choice of them all. The F-16 would of been last.

In fact i would of prefered we buy planes from Russia Like the new Mig's or Sukhoi.

Im just throwing a question here have any of you seen what an actual air strip looks like im talking about romanian miliatary airstrips.

You have concrete slabs put next to one another from which planes take off. Such an airstrip would tear an F-16 to shreads . Not just the F-16 in fact other then the Saab plane any other plane in the list would have its engines explode on takeoff due to debries on the runway.

Il see if i can find any pic's on the net and post a link or something.