[General Battuta]

Rather than comment in any meaningful way, I'll comment in a comical and unrelated way.

WOLVERINES!

You win.

[Nuclear1]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html

TBLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Georgia's parliament approved a request by President Mikhail Saakashvili on Saturday to impose a "state of war," as the conflict between Georgia and Russia escalated, Georgian officials said. 

Saakashvili accused Russia of launching an unprovoked full-scale military attack against his country, including targeting civilian homes, while Russian officials insist that their troops were protecting people from Georgia's attacks on South Ossetia, a breakaway Georgian region that borders Russia.

Russia's Interfax news agency said the death toll was at least 2,000 in the capital of South Ossetia and claimed that the city has been destroyed.

Separatist-backed South Ossetian sources reported that about 1,600 people have died and 90 have been wounded in provincial capital Tskhinvali since Russian forces entered the territory Thursday.

[NGTM-1R]

The real problem for Russia, politically, is probably that nobody invited them in. They just decided it would be fun. If there had been a well-publicized request for assistance, it would have helped them a lot. As it stands, even if they produce evidence of such a thing now it's not going to help them.

[WMCoolmon]

So, expect a high-ranking military official or two to end up being removed or stepping down when all this is over?

[Nuclear1]

People on each side need to catch flak for this--Georgians for completely leveling Tskhinvali and the Russians for Goli.

[Flaser]

What I find disgusting is the simple minded, bloody manipulated way how the Western media portrays the whole issue.

In other words:
-anything that lessens Russians influence - GOOD! (Giving Kosovo independence)
-anything that extends Russian influence - BAD! (Giving/preserving Ossetian independence)

On ethnic cleansing: Bollocks! Simply put these people still wage the tried and true form of war - genocide. All that "illegal combat" crap is just us westerners going soft...there's nothing inherently inconceivable about it. I can't believe my kind keeps spouting the same explanation: "I can't believe they could do that!"

[achtung]

-anything that lessens Russians influence - GOOD! (Giving Kosovo independence)
-anything that extends Russian influence - BAD! (Giving/preserving Ossetian independence)

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Nuclear1]

-anything that extends Russian influence - BAD! (Giving/preserving Ossetian independence)

If Russia were to preserve South Ossetia's independence in a way which didn't involve indiscriminately bombing Georgian civilians without reason and blatantly ignoring basic rules of armed combat, then I doubt the world would disapprove as much.

On ethnic cleansing: Bollocks! Simply put these people still wage the tried and true form of war - genocide. All that "illegal combat" crap is just us westerners going soft...there's nothing inherently inconceivable about it. I can't believe my kind keeps spouting the same explanation: "I can't believe they could do that!"

So you approve of genocide/ethnic cleansing then?

[NGTM-1R]

Genocide is in any case counterproductive both in the short and long term.

[Solatar]

I'm not so sure genocide is analogous to total war, which is a tried and true method of fighting a conflict (bombing/burning the **** out of anything that can produce or store anything). Total war tends to kill a lot of civilians because civilians tend to live in places like industrial centers...and cities. Genocide tends to kill even more civilians because, well, that's the point.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Russia destabilizes Georgia so Georgia won't be accepted into NATO. 

[Admiral_Stones]

I guess this is an invitation for moving all available U.S. Army troops to georgia, there we get an Afghanistan 2 and Cuba gets another set of nuclear missiles.

This is our chance to start a real war, not such pussy 'we-need-moar-oil' fights. Finally we can remove our pathetic race from Earth in the soothing heat of thermonuclear war and in the chilling cold in the nuclear winter.

[Snail]

This is our chance to start a real war, not such pussy 'we-need-moar-oil' fights. Finally we can remove our pathetic race from Earth in the soothing heat of thermonuclear war and in the chilling cold in the nuclear winter.

I say wait for the space aliens to do that for us. Lazy, and the same result, if not cooler.

[I say space aliens because I don't mean Polish immigrants]

[SF-Junky]

What I find disgusting is the simple minded, bloody manipulated way how the Western media portrays the whole issue.

In other words:
-anything that lessens Russians influence - GOOD! (Giving Kosovo independence)
-anything that extends Russian influence - BAD! (Giving/preserving Ossetian independence)

Basically, I agree that many, many people in the western world do have this mindest - but at least the german media do report rather objectively about the whole thing.

But as in any conflict there is no "good" or "bad" side. If Russia would indeed care so much about South Ossetias independence, why don't they officialy recognize its government? They had 16 years now to do so, after all! Instead, they give them russian passports, trying to bind them on Russia.

[vyper]

So how long till everyone here stops arguing about nonsense and realises this is over oil and energy supply dominance?

[ShadowGorrath]

Russia has plenty of natural resources and land, so it's not that

[Flipside]

Neither Russia nor Georgia have clean hands in this, Russia will expand if they have the chance, any country would, and Georgia went and gave them a lovely reason to do so.

I do think that Russia is looking to grab a piece of Georgia, but I don't think there would be this much confusion around if Georgia hadn't been so willing to provoke them, and there would have been no hint of an excuse to do so had it not been for the already present internal strife.

[Asprin]

Guys, if I still can to speak here....

Neither Russia nor Georgia have clean hands in this

I think this is most correct opinion.

Russia will expand if they have the chance, any country would

Well, some of our damn politicians believe that RF borders must be expanded, and one of them about 7 years ago even told that "Our soldiers will be washed boots in the Indian Ocean". Fortunatelly, such politicians are in the minority and this situation will never be changed.

and Georgia went and gave them a lovely reason to do so.

I think it's not about Georgia - not about its territory. There is one serious reason - all South Ossetians have Russian citizenship and RF passports. So, just try to listen our opinion, i know all this materials on russian language but if you want have full vision of the situation, you must translate this: http://lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/08/ossetia/ or read here: http://www.rbc.ru/ or just here: http://www.1tv.ru Anyway, the first Georgian military strike was against civilians, which have Russian citizenship. Personally, I've lost two of my friends there.

[Flipside]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

The problem is that, rather than simply going in to help the South Ossetians, it's all gone political now...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7552908.stm

I suppose that's what I mean by an 'excuse', Georgia were, by all accounts, treating South Ossetia terribly, and Russia went in to help them. The problem is that the foot is in the door now, and I fear this may get very sticky before it is sorted out

[Nuclear1]

I think it's not about Georgia - not about its territory. There is one serious reason - all South Ossetians have Russian citizenship and RF passports. So, just try to listen our opinion, i know all this materials on russian language but if you want have full vision of the situation, you must translate this: http://lenta.ru/articles/2008/08/08/ossetia/ or read here: http://www.rbc.ru/ or just here: http://www.1tv.ru Anyway, the first Georgian military strike was against civilians, which have Russian citizenship. Personally, I've lost two of my friends there.

You're right, Russia has a right to defend its citizens.

Keyword:  defend.  The moment the Russians deployed an air force, it became a war for Russia to expand its reach.  With very, very few exceptions, air power is purely an offensive weapon.  There's no purpose served in bombing cities, apartment complexes, and Tblisi International Airport, other than to break Georgia's will to fight.  Russia has the ground force capability to defend South Ossetia, which is all they need to do.