Author Topic: Summer Olympics 2008  (Read 23525 times)

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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Is there a video depository of '08 Olympic footage? I've done some minor searching, and can't seem to find anything that doesn't involve the atheletes talking about their childhoods, or the like.

...what? I thought there was Television coverage of the Olympics on the other side of the world as well. Maybe my local TV station wasn't lying after all...
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Quote: Tuesday, 3 October 2023 0133 UTC +8, #general
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Offline ssmit132

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I believe the appropriate phrase is Sore Loser.

The British commentators may have expressed surprise that Nastia didn't beat He Kexin but they expressed about the same amount of surprise that both of them weren't beaten by Yang Yilin. So either way the winner would have been Chinese.

Uh huh. The Australian judge that made the decision got a hell of a lot of flak from (some of) the American public. It was on our news. IIRC they thought that she was either biased against the US or biased towards China.

 

Offline karajorma

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Except that my point was that one of the Chinese athletes who made 3rd place did better than both the Chinese athlete who won and the American who came second. So it's pretty hard to claim bias.

Hell, some of the Chinese spectators booed when they heard the score for Yang Yilin since it put her in 3rd place and they probably felt (as I do) that she deserved the gold.

So either the judges are seeing something we aren't or BOTH Nastia and Yilin were robbed. Which is why I'm saying that I feel it's sour grapes from the Americans. I hear all kinds of comments about how Nastia was robbed but having watched all three medalists again I can't see how anyone is going to tell me she deserved gold. At best she deserved silver which is what she got. :p
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Offline Flipside

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A She called He....

That's bloody confusing....

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Which is why I'm saying that I feel it's sour grapes from the Americans.
Well, considering at least two of the Chinese gymnasts are underage (Yang Yilin included), neither of the two Chinese girls should have been competing on that event, or in the Olympics for that matter.  Therefore, Nastia was robbed because China cheated to get these girls into the games in the first place.  Nevermind the fact the judges have been showing favoritism towards the Chinese gymnasts for the last several days of the events, or were just incompetent.

Say whatever you want, there is no way He Kexin or Yang Yilin are 15/16 years old.
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Offline karajorma

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That's a different argument from the one you originally presented. If you want to have the discussion about age that's fine but your  original argument was that Nastia was better.
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Offline highwayman

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That's a different argument from the one you originally presented. If you want to have the discussion about age that's fine but your  original argument was that Nastia was better.

Beyond a certain level of performance (not falling and executing mostly well) the scoring and interpretation of gymnastics routines are completely subjective. There is no qualitative way to score the competition - if there was, the judges would all be coming up with the same scores, instead of sometimes wildly varying ones. If he thinks Nastia was better on one event and you think Yang was, that comes down to opinion, there's really no factual way to determine who is right or wrong.

As a very casual spectator of gymnastics and also the diving competition, I found myself constantly confused by the scoring - I couldn't see flaws or significant differences between two performances, but the scores would be quite different for no reason I could see nor the commentators could explain. And you have to think something is wonky when out of two athletes doing two vaults, one lands both and looks pretty good and the other looks good on one but totally screws the landing on the other and still gets a better score...
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Offline Kie99

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Imagine if football or basketball was scored not by who scores the goals or gets the ball through the basket, but by how prettily the team moves the ball around, and it doesn't matter if the ball goes in the net or not... that's gymnastics.

Yeah. That would be dreadful, Brazil and Italy would win almost every championship.

I don't know if you've ever watched Italy play football, they're essentially the polar opposite of Brazil.  Arsenal would win the Treble every year though instead of winning nothing.
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Offline Rian

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Beyond a certain level of performance (not falling and executing mostly well) the scoring and interpretation of gymnastics routines are completely subjective. There is no qualitative way to score the competition - if there was, the judges would all be coming up with the same scores, instead of sometimes wildly varying ones. If he thinks Nastia was better on one event and you think Yang was, that comes down to opinion, there's really no factual way to determine who is right or wrong.

As a very casual spectator of gymnastics and also the diving competition, I found myself constantly confused by the scoring - I couldn't see flaws or significant differences between two performances, but the scores would be quite different for no reason I could see nor the commentators could explain. And you have to think something is wonky when out of two athletes doing two vaults, one lands both and looks pretty good and the other looks good on one but totally screws the landing on the other and still gets a better score...

Just because you can’t see the difference between two performances doesn’t mean it isn’t there. There’s a reason they don’t just pull people off the street and hand them a scorecard – those judges train for years and take difficult tests to qualify to judge at this level, and they know what they’re doing.

As a former gymnast myself, I can say that although there is some leeway in the scoring, it is not entirely subjective. The judges have to adhere to something called the Code of Points, which is established by the International Gymnastics Federation and tells them what deductions they are allowed to take for what kind of mistakes. Some of these possible deductions given as ranges, so if one judge takes the minimum and another takes the max, that can account for some difference between them. But most of the time they arrive within a tenth or two of each other, which certainly wouldn’t happen if they were just looking at the routine and saying “Eh, that looks like a 9.55 to me.”

They write down every deduction they take, and if someone challenges their decision the scores are subject to review by the competition officials. If they differ too widely, they try to find out where the discrepancy came from – it’s usually because someone missed something that another judge didn’t, and the competition officials will help to determine which interpretation was correct. They can’t post the final score until they reach some kind of agreement about the facts of what happened.

The mistakes that people can commonly identify – falling, wobbling, stumbling on the landing – are important, but they’re not the only thing that affects the score. The judges see a lot that you don’t, and they have to account for that in the scores. For example, the gymnast who has a mostly solid-looking routine might have failed to reach a full split on one of her leaps, or have stalled a little too long between skills that were supposed to be connected. Both of those are hefty deductions that may even lose credit for the skill entirely.

There are very specific requirements for what has to go into a routine, and if something’s missing – something that you might not know unless you were familiar with these requirements – then the routine may not score as highly as one that met all the requirements, no matter how cleanly it was executed.

That’s not to say that some of the gymnastics scoring wasn’t dodgy. As I said, the judges have a bit of wiggle room – a deduction might range from one to three tenths, depending on the severity of the error and the judgment of the officials – and that can add up, if the judges take a particular liking or disliking to a particular athlete or her style. But it’s really not just a matter of opinion, even educated opinion.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Is there a video depository of '08 Olympic footage? I've done some minor searching, and can't seem to find anything that doesn't involve the atheletes talking about their childhoods, or the like.

...what? I thought there was Television coverage of the Olympics on the other side of the world as well. Maybe my local TV station wasn't lying after all...

There were only two events (shooting and table tennis) I was interested in, and they showed them at times when I couldn't watch. NBC seems to have dropped the ball with their footage, as well. :/

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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If you think Gymnastics was bad, try table tennis. All three medals in the womens' singles event went to China.
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Quote: Tuesday, 3 October 2023 0133 UTC +8, #general
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Offline Kie99

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Russia have overtaken Team GB in 3rd.
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Offline karajorma

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I split off the discussion of the ranking system.

Looks like team GB are going to finish 4th now since we have no competitors left. Fairly respectable considering we were 10th last time. Hopefully we can improve on that in 2012. A lot of the younger athletes do seem to have been seeing this as a trial run for 2012.
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If you think Gymnastics was bad, try table tennis. All three medals in the womens' singles event went to China.

        That's not surprising, China kicked ass in table tennis long before they started throwing money at their athletes.

There were only two events (shooting and table tennis) I was interested in, and they showed them at times when I couldn't watch. NBC seems to have dropped the ball with their footage, as well. :/

       CBC always shows the same **** every year. Not once, have I EVER seen anything like Fencing, or Handball or Tae Kwon Do on CBC. Of the three I only care about TWD mind you. . . . Hell Canada won two medals in women's wrestling, was that on TV? Not bloody likely. Apparenlty some or most of these events are on the dedicated-CBC sports channels but not everyone wants to 200 channels when they only watch 1-2 hours of TV per week. But the regular CBC channel just shows the same thing EVERY SINGLE OLYMPICS.

       So honestly who gives a ****.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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I think Britain will do better at the next Summer Olympics. The competitors will be competing on their own homeground, so they'll probably fight a little harder than usual. ;)
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Quote: Tuesday, 3 October 2023 0133 UTC +8, #general
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Offline Mongoose

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CBC always shows the same **** every year. Not once, have I EVER seen anything like Fencing, or Handball or Tae Kwon Do on CBC. Of the three I only care about TWD mind you. . . . Hell Canada won two medals in women's wrestling, was that on TV? Not bloody likely. Apparenlty some or most of these events are on the dedicated-CBC sports channels but not everyone wants to 200 channels when they only watch 1-2 hours of TV per week. But the regular CBC channel just shows the same thing EVERY SINGLE OLYMPICS.
That's the reason I shoved all of the various NBC-owned networks into our cable service's favorites menu, so that I'd get a chance to see a few of the more esoteric sports in-between watching Phelps clean up at the pool.  NBC's Olympics site had all kinds of live/archived streaming video from just about every event, too, even though I didn't get to take advantage of most of it.  Hell, the only reason I know what curling is right now is because I was watching it at 4AM on MSNBC while Torino was going on. :p

Speaking of cleaning up, how about China losing out on its diving sweep the other day?  I'd hate to be in that second-place guy's shoes right now; having 1.3 billion people be utterly pissed at you probably isn't a great feeling.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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They do have over 50 Gold medals. In anycase the Olympics is over now. We can now wait another 4 years for the London Olympics.
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They do have over 50 Gold medals. In anycase the Olympics is over now. We can now wait another 4 years for the London Olympics.


        Well I think the pre-olympic estimate was 46 so the Chinese have to be happy anyway. For another week or two, until everyone stops caring about the olympics for another two years.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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And assuming their gymnastics medals aren't revoked, or the IOC doesn't decide to go ape**** on them since the Chinese government was obviously complicit in that and take away everything.
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