Author Topic: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.  (Read 7451 times)

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Offline S-99

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
So English is based on the day of the week, the month, and the spacial orientation of the speaker as compared to the Emperor? The closest human approximation I can think of, actually, is Navajo, which has so many different verb forms based on so many circumstances you'll go mad just trying to figure them out. A word eight characters long in its anglicized version, na'ildil, means roughly "You are accustomed to eat plural seperable objects one at a time." (Dear god, that's actually more words then there are characters in the Navajo word.) There was a very good reason why the Marines used native speakers of the langauge in WW2 as essentially human cryptographic machines: the langauge is so complex as to be totally impenetrable to an outsider, even after years of observation and analysis of context. Yes, you can learn it, but you would never manage to sound like a native speaker and it would take you at least a couple decades.

Now throw in the added complication of the langauge having been created by someone with non-human pyschology.

Learning Vasudan doesn't sound so easy anymore, does it?

NGTM-1R, i will clarify what i said already.  The factors that govern their speech is the exact same factors that govern our speech for all languages all over in the real world. V just tossed in all that stuff to make it seemingly impossible to learn vasudan. When in fact the vasudan language when compared to earth's languages are governed by the same stuff. Anyway, NGTM-1R, you're talking about something completely different than what i was. You're talking about difficulty of the language where as i'm talking about stuff like dialects and accents.

Quote from: The wiki
The crowning achievement of the Vasudan civilization is its language. For the average Terran, the formalities governing its usage are beyond comprehension. Syntax and vocabulary are dictated by such factors as the speaker's age, rank, and caste, the time of day and the phase of the Vasudan calendar, and the relative spatial position of the speaker to the Emperor. This is further compounded by the existence of several alphabets, dozens of verb tenses, and thousands of dialects. A translation device is standard on all GTVA communications systems, enabling Terrans and Vasudans to mutually understand each other.

The formalities governing the vasudan language are anything but beyond comprehension and are the same formalities humans use. Syntax and vocabulary are very much in any language dictated by such factors as age, rank, and caste.
What does this mean?
It's obvious that elders don't speak the same way as children do. It obvious that you'd be speaking to your boss in a specific manner, and it's obvious you'd be speaking to your parents in a certain way too. Children say poop, older people say **** instead. You'd tell your boss, "righteo i'm on it". And you certainly don't want to dishonor your parents because you chose a bad way to speak to them.

As far as that goes, wow, earth languages have thousands of dialects, dozens of verb tenses, there's thousands of alphabets on earth too! How unbelievable!

People do speak differently at different times of the day as well as during different dates. As far as relative spatial position of the speaker to the emperor. Those who live with royal family and those who live near a royal family are going to be using a different vocabulary and dialect in the least.

As far as this goes. This just explains that V tries to make it seem that the vasudan language is uncomprehendable, but not really. I believe V chose a bad set of reasons that just stated that the zods language is governed by the stuff human languages are governed by. What V wrote about the vasudan language says nothing about whether it's vocally possible for humans to speak. At the same time since zod language is governed by the same rules as all earth languages a human can probably learn to understand zod without a translation device. And this is where i'll take your example into play. Learning to understand zod is definitely not akin to understanding spanish and probably more akin to trying to understand navajo.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 08:10:23 pm by S-99 »
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Offline Solatar

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Terrans and Vasudans obviously have at least an understanding of each other's languages. Translation devices don't just pop out of nowhere.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Jerix uul'resech'hrax. ;)

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Research Hacks?

 
Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Speaking of Vasudans, does anyone hear "Super Star Destroyer" in the Psamtik's main hall?

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
You can clearly make out "you're a thief" in a voice file from one of the ST multiplayer missions.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Speaking of Vasudans, does anyone hear "Super Star Destroyer" in the Psamtik's main hall?

Uh, no...
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Offline Snail

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Uh, no...
There is, the file is called V_Pa_01.wav. It does sound a bit like Super Star Destroyer. I'm just wondering if I can find "It's a trap!!" anywhere.

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Offline Eishtmo

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
I've thought on the Vasudan language recently, and I think it might be related to their governmental structure (go with me on this).

Vasuda is a desert planet, and that kind of means travel between the various tribes of pre-space flight Vasuda was probably limited at best (who wants to trudge across the desert where the surface water is more than undrinkable?).  So the various "tribes" (for lack of a better term) probably didn't have a great deal of contact with each other, which means they developed their own languages (just like us, actually).

However, at some point, one rose to the top and that's where the Emperor can trace his linage.  While some of the take over was likely by conquest, some was probably peaceful, meaning wiping out the local culture and language was not possible.  "Ambassadors" from the various tribes within the newly formed Vasudan empire would bring their language to the Emperor's court, but it's possible and likely the Emperor only wanted to hear his own language, so they would have to speak it there.

Now fast forward through the next 10,000 years, and the location of the various tribes, their status and such shifts and moves, and then formalizes, and thus the languages become formalized in the same way.  If you're in the Emperor's presense, you speak the language of the imperial court, but if you're further out, you speak a different language, and farther out a different one, then other things, probably holidays and such, get into the mix and the language explodes in size and complexity.

So, what is likely is the Vasudan langauge ISN'T one langauge, but multiple languages that got mixed together.  How does this relate to the government?  Those ambassadors likely spoke to one another quite often, and eventually formed the first Vasudan Parliment, and eventually they pulled a Magna Carta on the Emperor and took over control.

So if you want to learn Vasudan, you would basically have to learn EVERY one of their languages, which is akin to learning every language on Earth.  Not easy, by a long shot.  Probably the only thing that would help is that there are probably a few more common languages (perhaps even a one for Vasudans who live outside of Vasuda Prime) that one could learn, but to truly learn Vasudan would take a talented person.

It's just a thought and theory, nothing more.  Would explain a few things.
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Offline Solatar

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Makes sense, even from a human perspective. It's similar to the relationship between Latin and various other European languages a few hundred years ago. Intellectuals debated and spoke to one another in Latin, but went home and spoke German/English/French.

Of course that's a simple way to understand it, and add on many, many more languages and it makes sense that it's almost indecipherable for Terrans.

The "rules" of the Conversation might have something to do with deciding on which language to speak in. If you meet a stranger, you might not know which language to speak in, so there are certain formalities you must go through to decide. A Terran would just want to find a common language, and not care how.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Makes tons of sense. I like this. :yes:

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
This goes for the Terrans as well. If Freespace was real, would they really have settled on English being their base language for the GTA?
Every country is proud of its own language.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
This goes for the Terrans as well. If Freespace was real, would they really have settled on English being their base language for the GTA?
Every country is proud of its own language.
I suspect the Americans nuked everyone somewhere down the line.

Or maybe everyone just learned English as the language everyone speaks while in space, as it's a simple language to learn (compared to some other languages) and it was already widespread. Lots of European countries teach English as a second language. Maybe the people in the GTVA all speak English, just not as a first language.

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Either they have translators everywhere, or english is the national language. After all, it says in the tech room that the terrans have reached globalisation and became a single nation. Would make sense that english or some other language would be of prime importance and used everywhere, and the original languages taught as secondary ones.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
English is already the universal language of aviation.  Every commercial pilot is required to speak it.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Then its not too hard to assume that space pilots need to know english too when the civilization is space-faring.
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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Or maybe everyone just learned English as the language everyone speaks while in space, as it's a simple language to learn (compared to some other languages) and it was already widespread.

     Eh, I don't think English is a particularly easy language to learn considering its the bastard child of french and germanic old english. But then again I'm not ESL. Anything's easy when you grow up speaking it.

 

Offline Solatar

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
Goober's right, it's the international language of aviation. It makes sense that it would continue into space as well. The FS Reference Bible refers to it as 'Terran standard' or something of the like, but I'm sure people speak other languages.

 

Offline Eishtmo

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
I think they call it Terran Standard, which only means it's what's used for general communication.  Like Solatar was saying, Terrans would likely seek out the first common language, for they have one already and go from there.  I suspect most of our current batch of languages still exist by that time.

Also, calling it Terran Standard helps with the various translations of the game.  It doesn't strictly have to be English you know.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Some Terran-Vasudan Questions.
I was thinking...what other similarities do the Terrans and Vasudans share apart from being two-legged creatures?
Well, they're carbon based.