[General Battuta]

It's often speculated that GTVI allowed the Iceni to escape Allied forces on several occasions so that they could allow Bosch to field-test ETAK (and subsequently capture it, which the player achieves late in the FS2 campaign.)

What if this plan was a complete success? Is it possible that the GTVA communicated on a crude level with the Shivans between the destruction of the first Sathanas and the ultimate destruction of the Capella star? Could this communication explain some of the events?

What if Bosch or the Security Council somehow agreed to sacrifice Capella to the Shivans? It is reasonable to suggest that the Shivans like or need nebula environments. Perhaps Capella was a tithe to the Shivans, either forestalling a fullscale invasion or creating a viable Shivan habitat close to GTVA space as a prelude to future contact. (The former variation of this theory is somewhat similar to some of the X-Files mythology.)

Obviously, there is no conclusive evidence for or against this theory -- it's merely speculation. Perhaps it'll produce something interesting in someone's brain! At the very least, it does manage to incorporate most of FS2's loose ends.

[Akalabeth Angel]

It's often speculated that GTVI allowed the Iceni to escape Allied forces on several occasions so that they could allow Bosch to field-test ETAK (and subsequently capture it, which the player achieves late in the FS2 campaign.)

       When did the GTVA capture it? The Iceni self destructed before they could get any materials offboard as far as I remember.

[NGTM-1R]

They would have had to construct and deploy a relatively new technology very rapidly, and while they would have had some kind of idea of how it worked, I doubt they actually got a full set of technical information.

I also really can't see the GTVA, given what the Shivans have done to the member races, being willing to talk to them. Or for that matter, even seeing the point to trying to talk to them in the time period they would have (possibly) had the capablity: what could the GTVA really have offered that the Shivans and their 80+ Sathanas juggernauts weren't capable of taking with ease?

There is an additional and very important reason not to talk to the Shivans: it would give away the fact that the GTVA can understand them, which would make future monitoring of and combat against them much harder. Given what the Shivans did aboard the Iceni, it's possible that they themselves realized this made them vunerable and attempted to destroy all evidence of the ETAK device at a more fundemental level prior to destruction of the Iceni itself. (Perhaps due to the Iceni's heavily-armored nature and apparent heavy redundancy and compartmentalization, they did not feel sure that destroying the ship would definitively remove all evidence.) So far as we know, the Shivans remain blissfully ignorant of the GTVA's ability to eavesdrop on them. Total mastery of an enemy's communications can bring vast benefits, and this is an advantage that would not be discarded lightly by Terran strageists (who would remember such battles as Tannenburg and Midway). Only if the situation approached total panic would the military likely be inclined to look favorably on attempting to talk with the Shivans, and it does not seem that things ever got that bad at the command level.

I've speculated before that Bosch discovered the Shivans couldn't be swayed from wiping out the GTVA, and in an effort to save humanity (as he's always been in this, at least in his head, for the good of his species) lied to them about GTVA capablities and force size, provoking the Shivans to destroy the Capella star as a means of sealing themselves off from a supposed Terran-Vasudan superpower. (Which would make the apparent sacrifice of a number of juggernauts a more rational decision, as the concept of acceptable losses tends to get bigger compared to the alternative of possible annihilation; the same philosophy drove the GTVA plan to collapse the Capella nodes. It would be ironic if both sides were thinking much the same thing.)

[admiral_wolf]

How would the Supernova seal off the jump nodes to Capella?  I'm not being critcal, but I thought the only way to shut a node was to set up a mass explosion within the corridor, unless the Sathanii weapons are capable of Subspace cataclisms.

[Droid803]

Well, I think transforming Capella into a cloud of superheated gas would dissuade people from sending ships through it

[Flipside]

The expansion rate means that the Gas actually cools incredibly quickly, the system would be accessible a few years after the explosion. Though, of course, the radiation might be a problem, but considering that GTVA hulls can withstand bombs with ratings that could crack a planet open like an egg, I suppose that depends on how strictly you interpret in-game canon.

[Spicious]

I would have thought the changes in gravity would mess things up a bit.

[NGTM-1R]

I would have thought the changes in gravity would mess things up a bit.

Considering the GTVA was able to operate anywhere in a nebula considered light-years wide, it seems the local gravity requirement is low.

[eliex]

Besides, travelling system to system doesn't totally depend on subspace - subspace only makes it faster.

If the Shivans wanted a return, they could just use the old travel through space in a span of about 700 years until the GTVA's new Alpha 1 destroys them.

By the way, do you think that the Alpha 1 in FS2 is the same in FS1? Alpha 1 being maybe 20 at the time of TGW would still be like to witness the events of FS2.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The GTVA may not have ETAK, but they have its specifications, which should be good enough.

It is inhuman to sacrifice an entire star system to destruction.

[NGTM-1R]

It is inhuman to sacrifice an entire star system to destruction.

Compared to losing multiple ones and your species being wiped out?

For that matter, Capella's evacuation had been ongoing since the first Sathanas, so it's reasonable most of the population had already escaped.

[Mars]

By the way, do you think that the Alpha 1 in FS2 is the same in FS1? Alpha 1 being maybe 20 at the time of TGW would still be like to witness the events of FS2.

The original Alpha 1 was trapped in the Sol system, the one in Silent Threat is presumably Bosch, so I would hazard to guess it's a different one in FS2

[General Battuta]

It is inhuman to sacrifice an entire star system to destruction.

Compared to losing multiple ones and your species being wiped out?

For that matter, Capella's evacuation had been ongoing since the first Sathanas, so it's reasonable most of the population had already escaped.

Yeah, that adds to the conspiracy nature of it -- although of course it is reasonable to keep evacuating Capella, you could argue it was because the Security Council suspected more juggernaughts were on the way. While I agree with what you said earlier, NGTM-1R, the nature of Freespace canon is that it accepts multiple interpretations. If a campaign writer wanted to assert that the GTVA had negotiated with the Shivans, handing over Capella as a new nest, a supernode, or a resource field -- in exchange for a brief ceasefire or further communication -- I think they could justify it with the facts at hand.

I do disagree with the idea that the GTVA would not want to give up the advantage of being able to eavesdrop on Shivan comms. It's one thing to speak in the same medium as the Shivans; quite another to understand their language to the point where you could extract useful intelligence. Of course, you could make an argument for your idea. I'm willing to accept either way. Just throwing out ideas!

[ShadowGorrath]

And the Shivans in FS2 didn't even try to wipe out the GTVA.

[Droid803]

And the Shivans in FS2 didn't even try to wipe out the GTVA.

Yeah, if they did, they wouldn't have blown up Capella. They'd send Saths everywhere and level everything.

[Dilmah G]

And the Shivans in FS2 didn't even try to wipe out the GTVA.

Yeah, if they did, they wouldn't have blown up Capella. They'd send Saths everywhere and level everything.

OR

they could've despatched several of their Sathani (whose to say they didnt build millions of those things during the Reconstruction Period.. what else do Shivans do in 32 Years?), to take down the Star which in turn

A) Provides nebula gasses to the Shivan gas miners (they mine nebula gasses remember), and whose to say they don't have an economy, and that they're economy relies on nebula gasses

and

B) Takes care of those annoying little bastards who call themselves the GTVA, and that douschebag who thought he could talk Shivan

If they had a lot of those Sathani (They're economy and manufacturing methods may be different, allowing many of these monsters to be built), they could effectively sacrifice a dozen for a massive economic revival and 'peace'

[eliex]

By the way, do you think that the Alpha 1 in FS2 is the same in FS1? Alpha 1 being maybe 20 at the time of TGW would still be like to witness the events of FS2.

The original Alpha 1 was trapped in the Sol system, the one in Silent Threat is presumably Bosch, so I would hazard to guess it's a different one in FS2

Forgot about that. Seems like a reminder to re-play FS1 again! 

[Shiku]

I would have thought the changes in gravity would mess things up a bit.

Considering the GTVA was able to operate anywhere in a nebula considered light-years wide, it seems the local gravity requirement is low.

I thought that in the tech room Jump nodes are noted to be formed by gravity wells, specifically around planets, and other location in the solar system.

And my guess is that the Nodes in the nebula were held in place by the stars there. (Every mission in the nebula featured a star, so I assume that that nebula is old enough for new stars to be forming, and hence new nodes.)

So I would assume that the supernova of Capella's sun would cause the current nodes to collapse, but that new ones would form when new suns were created out of the nebula left by Capella.

[blowfish]

Well, I might remind you that both nodes in the Nebula were at least partially non-natural (Knossos, anyone ).

But IIRC intrasystem jump drives require gravity to operate, so there must be at least some gravity in the nebula.

[Snail]

Personally I believe that the Capella node didn't destabilize until the Nereid went through, but that's just me.