Author Topic: Gripe/Constructive Criticism (Campaign packaging)  (Read 2001 times)

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Offline WMCoolmon

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Gripe/Constructive Criticism (Campaign packaging)
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Echo_Gate
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Phantoms

Both of these campaigns in the FSWiki link to a download that contains two campaign files and nothing else. The actual download is here, but it's in .7z format which has compatibility issues. The actual download also doesn't have any kind of description, which is important since both campaigns require Lightspeed's nebula pack.

However, if you're new to Freespace, this isn't going to help you very much because you'll need to know where to put the files in the nebula pack. The pack contains two zip files (?), one which contains missions, the other which contains the actual nebula files and a table. Of course there's no directory structure in those zip files, and the readme isn't very helpful since it assumes that the reader is somebody pretty competent with FS modding since LS considered the pack to be incomplete.

The solution:
Repack the campaigns in a .zip file and create a proper description on them in Freespacemods.net, and get rid of the old download links (replace them with redirects if possible). I have no complaints about the brshivans.7z file other than its compression format - in fact, it's an excellent example of what's possible when you spend a little time to organize things. All you have to know to use it is to extract it to you Freespace 2 folder and you're ready to go (If you have the prerequisites).

Lightspeed's nebula pack should be repacked in a .VP file compatible with the mediaVPs. Preferably, it should be an optional component of the mediaVPs since it's apparently used by several campaigns (mv_Mods.vp or something). According to the wiki, stars.tbl does have modular table support so it's probably possible to replace the stars.tbl in the nebula pack with a .tbm.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 02:27:40 am by WMCoolmon »
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Gripe/Constructive Criticism (Campaign packaging)
Disagree with you on 7z.  It's open-source, free, and very simple to use.  Release threads should merely include a link to its download.

I've been griping about the LSNebulae for quite some time now.  They're included with the advanced effects mediaVP package, and there is another package of the lower-res ones (but still much better than the defaults) floating around the Upgrade project forum, but it would be nice to see a different packaging system than the current adveffects choices - the nebulae are something medium-end computers can easily handle and if they aren't being included in effects then it would be nice to see a separate package for them which can be used in conjunction with the basic effects package.

As it currently stands, the Upgrade team has done something odd with the nebulae in the 3.6.10 packages which was discussed several months ago (either they're in the effects pack and the table entires are missing, or something else).

Regardless, so many campaigns require the nebulae now that they should simple be in the effects package.  Hell, I could use them on a 1.2 Ghz processor and 9500Pro - by far the majority of systems won't suffer a performance hit.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Gripe/Constructive Criticism (Campaign packaging)
Disagree with you on 7z.  It's open-source, free, and very simple to use.  Release threads should merely include a link to its download.

It's silly to expect people to download an extra program to use an alternative format when ZIP does the job just as well. Recompressing it yields a 58.7 MB file, as opposed to a 55.7 MB file. It's not worth making someone go through the extra hassle of installing another program, when they may or may not have enough computer experience or access privileges to do so safely. Both windows and OS X feature default support for zip, the same cannot be said for 7z.

But I disagree with it more strongly because the main reason people seem to encourage people to use 7z is because it's open source. The point of FS2 campaigns is not to push a specific ideology or to oppose paid software by forcing people to use those programs or programs which support it. That's exactly what people accuse Microsoft of doing, and it's hypocritical to support a file format on that basis.

If this were because the file format made a critical practical difference (in a positive way) then I wouldn't object to it so much. But it doesn't. In the world of today, with broadband, installing a new program is a lot more of a hassle than downloading 3MB. If you're on 56k, you already spent 18 times that amount already, and the time it takes to download the 3MB will probably be less than the natural variance of the download speed between a good day and a bad day anyway.

EDIT: And if I sound hostile, it's because I have a lot of experience with this in Linux. Hours and hours worth. The mentality that this leads to is installing program after program or package after package, bloating the system and increasing its operational complexity, just because the author of a program liked that particular one better than the one that 95% of the other people use.  It's self-centered and antisocial, and punishes the users of the program for the authors' indulgence. It's fine when you have an option that allows you to go on your merry way without getting caught up in the mess, but as a sole option it really stinks.

At the end of the day, some people just want to be able to use the program or play the game, and learn about the 'best' method on their own time, when they choose to.

I've been griping about the LSNebulae for quite some time now.  They're included with the advanced effects mediaVP package, and there is another package of the lower-res ones (but still much better than the defaults) floating around the Upgrade project forum, but it would be nice to see a different packaging system than the current adveffects choices - the nebulae are something medium-end computers can easily handle and if they aren't being included in effects then it would be nice to see a separate package for them which can be used in conjunction with the basic effects package.

As it currently stands, the Upgrade team has done something odd with the nebulae in the 3.6.10 packages which was discussed several months ago (either they're in the effects pack and the table entires are missing, or something else).

Regardless, so many campaigns require the nebulae now that they should simple be in the effects package.  Hell, I could use them on a 1.2 Ghz processor and 9500Pro - by far the majority of systems won't suffer a performance hit.

I didn't know they were in the MediaVPs, but I do think they should be in a separate package. I can't use the MediaVPs for certain missions because of the massive slowdown due to asteroids, and when running in debug mode I often disable them because of the sheer number of warnings they cause. I'd imagine for people who use lower-spec systems they'd run into other slowdowns as well.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 04:18:16 pm by WMCoolmon »
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Offline Narwhal

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Re: Gripe/Constructive Criticism (Campaign packaging)
I downloaded these two campaigns in order to know where chronologically to put them and also to complete the campaign list of the wiki, and I couldn't figure out how to have them to work.


So WMCoolmon post is useful. Now I know how it's working. And it would be good if the downloading procedure was standardised IMHO.