[Androgeos Exeunt]

So what you're trying to say, Ryan, is that he chose Palin because of Hillary Clinton?

[Flipside]

Must admit, it wouldn't say much for the Hilary Voters if they were voting for gender rather than policy. If someone is prepared to vote for an entirely different political stance just so that they could vote for a female then they either need to seriously check their political stance, or get laid.

Even most women's liberation representatives would think twice about that one, though, some of the more extreme ones would probably do it, but then you could use their bitterness to power a small country.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I have read, though, that Palin might be able to help McCain in terms of energy if he wins.

And I agree with you, Flipside. When you vote for someone, you vote because you trust them and you are willing to stick to their ideals. If you vote for that person because of their physical appearance, you're just taking up space.

[Al Tarket]

yes i know before i even opened the link. a 43 year old woman from alaska, a leader of 9 thousand people and has had absolutely no foreign contact before.

strange decision indeed.

i will never get the political points of this sort of stuff and i will not even pretend to know either. however as i know it, why select a woman from what is considered a backwater part of the united states for?

i see better senators within the hierarchy that have better credentials.. which is why i say its strange.

He picked a VP which is nothing but a purely political choice.

Palin has been a governor for a short time and a mayor before that.  She has no federal experience, no foreign policy experience, and exemplifies every single one of the staunch conservative values (anti-abortion, anti-Science, pro-drilling, pro-2nd amendment).  Frankly, her selection as VP running-mate is a disaster... perhaps not for McCain, as Americans don't tend to vote based on the abilities of their leaders so much as their promises, but certainly if the Republicans do get another Presidential term this woman has the potential to do even more damage to the USA's international reputation.

She's a terrible choice in all practical terms, and I sincerely hope this obviously political move doesn't pay off in the slightest.

There are far more qualified and far better balanced women he could have chosen.  Frankly I'm somewhat surprised at a choice this poor.

exactly what i said on the first page.

as for basing it on physical appearance, its more like womens rights, equal pay, more women become bosses of more important companies and so on, women dont want to become sex objects to men like for example scantily clad women having their pictures taken for money, which seems to be the only profession where women have better pay then the men and only because the men like what they see from model to model and day to day.

i think hilary is trying to make sure women dont get sold short because men have the better of all sides, and on one issue, remember guys we got bought into the world by a woman and we wouldn't be here if it wasnt for the woman who had to endure so much and men are the ones getting it easy everytime. however its entirely up to you what you decide.

[Flipside]

I'm in favour of women's rights, no doubt, but I refuse, outright, to apologise for the society that created a need for it, even tribes in the Amazon use a system where the Men hunt and the Women gather vegetables and cook, not because of chauvinism, but because it's the sensible thing to do, men are physically designed to hunt, women are not, it's not something to get angry about, I'm not designed to breastfeed, if they want to get pissed off at several million years of evolution, then it's up to them.

The problem in places like the US and other more developed countries is that nobody does the hunting anymore, nobody gathers vegetables any more either.  I refuse to be 'grateful' to my mother for giving birth to me just as I refuse to be happy that my Dad got her pregnant in the first place, yes, I'm glad I'm alive, but my parents weren't having sex as a favour to me.

What is often known as "Women's Lib' in the West is really trying to erase a meme that has worked for civilisation for tens of thousands of years, I support it, but it's not going to be easy to shake, and pointing the finger at men as though they should be begging for an apology for doing something that worked (and, in many cases was the only way it could work, is going to slow it down, not speed it up.

[Al Tarket]

as you wish, however from my point of view looking over both sides of the issue, i think some would consider that an ignorant attitude. and it could be said that, that its not if you think it is right to think your parents did it to you as a favor, but to themselves, to have offspring that would continue the family tree more progeny through their sons and daughters. unfortunately you have no right to blame women for who and what they are, and its not their fault they have to grow you inside the womb and give birth. and your cant complain at such a thing because you i assume are a man, so you can not speak for what it is like, neither can i. begging to apoligies to women? its up to you, but their is another way, to thank them.

[Flipside]

Then if they did it to please themselves, then it was their decision, why should I be thanking them for it? I have a lot of reasons to care about my parents, but the fact they perform the same genetic function as any other human isn't one of them, I'd rather care for them because of who they are than what they did.

I love my parents, and I am grateful to them for raising and protecting me when I was a child, but it was always a responsibility they chose, I didn't force it on them, my own Mother taught me that someone who tries to use emotional blackmail to get them to love you ("You should be grateful, you owe your entire existence to us") then it's probably not Love they are after, it's control.

[karajorma]

as for basing it on physical appearance, its more like womens rights, [SNIP]

I know English probably isn't your first language Al Tarket so it's understandable but you seem to have completely missed the point that Flipside was making. No one was saying women's lib was wrong. What everyone was saying is that you can't say "I'll vote for Hillary Clinton for president cause I like her policies" and then when she failed to win the nomination say "I'll vote for Palin cause I like her policies".

Both have completely different policies so anyone who switches to John McCain simply because of his choice of running mate is quite clearing saying "I'm voting for a woman, Any woman. I don't give a **** what she actually stands for as long as she has the right genitals!"

And that is an incredibly stupid and sexist position to take.

[Flipside]

I suppose there are two kinds of 'womens lib' advocates, those that are out for change, and those that are out for some perverted view of 'justice', at the risk of lighting a few fires, it's similar to the slavery debate. I'm in favour of change, but 'justice' is in the eye of the beholder.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Everyone has their own idea of freedom as well. School rules originally came about to ensure the freedom of the masses, although most students view is a restriction.

[General Battuta]

He picked a VP which is nothing but a purely political choice.

Palin has been a governor for a short time and a mayor before that.  She has no federal experience, no foreign policy experience, and exemplifies every single one of the staunch conservative values (anti-abortion, anti-Science, pro-drilling, pro-2nd amendment).  Frankly, her selection as VP running-mate is a disaster... perhaps not for McCain, as Americans don't tend to vote based on the abilities of their leaders so much as their promises, but certainly if the Republicans do get another Presidential term this woman has the potential to do even more damage to the USA's international reputation.

She's a terrible choice in all practical terms, and I sincerely hope this obviously political move doesn't pay off in the slightest.

There are far more qualified and far better balanced women he could have chosen.  Frankly I'm somewhat surprised at a choice this poor.

Practically, sure, it's an awful choice.

Politically, though, it's a great choice, a masterstroke. Because, really, people don't care about the practical side.

[TopAce]

I wonder how long she will remain. She has her uses in the elections, but what happens after that?

I believe she will remain in the background, and abdicate. Or become very unpopular, and abdicate.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I wonder how long she will remain. She has her uses in the elections, but what happens after that?

I believe she will remain in the background, and abdicate. Or become very unpopular, and abdicate.

Or people act as if they were neuralised and nothing happened...

[Al Tarket]

or palin could become even more popular, and actually be the vp which she has been chosen for that only if mccain becomes president.

however mccain is walking a thin line in that respect.

as for karajorma: perhaps you are right about the english barrier. i was just wondering why flipside was so resistant to acknowledging that his mother is equal to him in any work place. sorry flipside if i cause any offense.

[Flipside]

No offence taken whatsoever, I suppose my position is that, as much as I love my Mum, she's earned that respect on a very personal level, not by giving birth to me, but by being my Mother. In a workplace, I'm the same, it's not that I don't believe women can't do the same job as me, but because I try to judge people by the respect they earn from me, not from any particular part of their nature, such as gender, race or religion

[Mongoose]

I wonder how long she will remain. She has her uses in the elections, but what happens after that?

I believe she will remain in the background, and abdicate. Or become very unpopular, and abdicate.

The entire constitutional role of the vice-president is essentially to assume the presidency in the case of the president dying or becoming incapacitated.  (Well, that and acting as president of the Senate, but that's just a tiebreaker role, really.)  That's it.  There'd be no political reason for her to resign in any sense, unless she happened to pull something impeachment-worthy at some point.  And she's not really so useless as you might expect; the fact that she's a known reformer and has an intimate knowledge of the energy industry is quite useful to the platform that McCain is running on.

And as sexist and idiotic a position as it is, I get the impression from many quotes I've seen that there are a decent number of female voters out there who were supporting Hillary for the sole reason that she happened to be born with a particular set of gonads.  McCain was well-aware of this when he made his choice, I'm sure.

[karajorma]

I don't doubt it. Same as there were people willing to vote for Tony Blair cause he looked prime ministerial in a suit.

These people are idiots. And their vote has exactly the same value as yours.

[Nuclear1]

Don't you love democracy/republicanism?

[Snail]

I get the impression from many quotes I've seen that there are a decent number of female voters out there who were supporting Hillary for the sole reason that she happened to be born with a particular set of gonads.

This sentence officially makes you a cool person.

[Mongoose]

If I had known it was that easy, I'd have said it years ago.