[General Battuta]

Doesn't matter. The pattern remains the same.

Think about it. None of your body is made of the same atoms as the day you were born. Effectively, you've been vaporized thousands of times over. But the pattern of atoms remains. That's what encodes your identity.

Except, as previously stated, you can't create a perfect copy. It won't be perfect.

And we haven't even dwelt into being able to re-create a human with his MEMORY  or current thoughts in tact.
Think about it - with the most sophisticated methods today it took us s***loads of time to move a dozen atoms on a singular piece of matter. Just one the surface.
Teleportoing is not useful at all if it takes 12*10^30 YEARS to put a man back together on the other end.


as I said before, I've been over teleporting with my Physics professor. He happens to be something of a Star Trek fan and works at CERN on anti-matter. Long story short - teleporation of human being is a dream.

That's very true, but I'm dealing with the philosophical objections, not the practical ones (which are the valid ones.)

[Stormkeeper]

I would split it, but it's such a spaghetti of topics, I'm not really sure where to begin...

True that. Change the topic name then

[Agent_Koopa]

Doesn't matter. The pattern remains the same.

Think about it. None of your body is made of the same atoms as the day you were born. Effectively, you've been vaporized thousands of times over. But the pattern of atoms remains. That's what encodes your identity.

Except, as previously stated, you can't create a perfect copy. It won't be perfect.

And we haven't even dwelt into being able to re-create a human with his MEMORY  or current thoughts in tact.
Think about it - with the most sophisticated methods today it took us s***loads of time to move a dozen atoms on a singular piece of matter. Just one the surface.
Teleportoing is not useful at all if it takes 12*10^30 YEARS to put a man back together on the other end.


as I said before, I've been over teleporting with my Physics professor. He happens to be something of a Star Trek fan and works at CERN on anti-matter. Long story short - teleporation of human being is a dream.

You forget our good friend the Law of Accelerating Returns! Factor that in, and we can expect large-scale teleportation of living beings by, what, next Tuesday?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I would split it, but it's such a spaghetti of topics, I'm not really sure where to begin...

Why not do it like bacteria? Split this one up, then split the split thread up, and so on.

[Jeff Vader]

I would split it, but it's such a spaghetti of topics, I'm not really sure where to begin...

Why not do it like bacteria? Split this one up, then split the split thread up, and so on.

But, among all those totally unrelated posts, there just might be two posts that are insignificantly related. Then you'd have to merge those two into one topic and so on.

Though you could also break everything up and reassebmle them so that the conversations would make no sense whatsoever. But that might count as abuse of power.

[TrashMan]

You forget our good friend the Law of Accelerating Returns! Factor that in, and we can expect large-scale teleportation of living beings by, what, next Tuesday?

The law of what? It doesn't apply here.

That's very true, but I'm dealing with the philosophical objections, not the practical ones (which are the valid ones.)

Well, there are philosophical ones too. Moral ones. The living being that gets teleported has to be killed as a first step. Let me repeat that - the first step of teleportation involves KILLING the person that's teleporting. That's just not a process I (or any sane person) would ever trust. If anything goes wrong you're gone forever.
I mean, imagine a airline company that goes "Oh hey. We're gonna shoot you in the head. Don't worry, once we transport your corpse we got people there who will bring you back to life!"

Aditionally, you forget one other inherent problem - data corruption and transfer errors. The amount of data would giganormeues and sent across great distances. Just a a few bits sent wrong, any interferance, and you pop up on the other side as a vegetable.

[General Battuta]

The data corruption issue is a practical one.

And I was pointing out that yes, you die, but you also live. Teleportation forces us to confront some very dearly-held myths about our identites -- we have to recognize that all that really makes us 'us' is the pattern of atoms in our bodies and brains.

So long as that pattern is preserved, we live.

[TrashMan]

The data corruption issue is a practical one.

And I was pointing out that yes, you die, but you also live. Teleportation forces us to confront some very dearly-held myths about our identites -- we have to recognize that all that really makes us 'us' is the pattern of atoms in our bodies and brains.

So long as that pattern is preserved, we live.

For which we have no proof that that's actually all that makes US.
Nor do we have the proof that it's possible to create a perfect replica. Actually, as I stated before, we have strong proof that it's impossible to create a perfect replica, due to the Heisenberg Uncertanty principle. If the replica is not perfect, then it's not me, now is it?

So you basicely think humanity should use a device that has no guarantees of success and who's first step is vaporizing you? Frankly, I have better chances winning hte lottery than getting out on the other end alive. Assuming whatever comes out the other end will be me in the first place.

I'd rather fly to my destination in a 100-year old, badly mantained plain from a shady third-world airline with no parachutes, filled with snakes and terrorists.

[General Battuta]

Those are all practical objections. I'm dealing with the philosophical objection, and assuming that the construction of a perfect duplicate is possible.

I already know that in reality it's not.

Calm down, you're preaching to the choir.

For which we have no proof that that's actually all that makes US.

That's the only philosophical objection you raised, to which I'd say: what else could there be? Some kind of soul?

[Stormkeeper]

Calm down, you're preaching to the choir.

What do you mean by that?

[Droid803]

Calm down, you're preaching to the choir.

What do you mean by that?

That's a metaphor, obviously! [/idiot]

[General Battuta]

Calm down, you're preaching to the choir.

What do you mean by that?

It means 'you are arguing a point to someone who already agrees with the point', i.e. you're wasting your efforts on someone who agrees with you.

It's a fairly common saying in American (and perhaps British?) culture.

[Stormkeeper]

Why 'choir' then. I know I never always agreed with my conductor when I was in choir ...

[Aardwolf]

No, like a minister/reverend/something, at a church, preaching to the church choir.

For which we have no proof that that's actually all that makes US.

That's the only philosophical objection you raised, to which I'd say: what else could there be? Some kind of soul?

I just find it ironic that if I were to play the devil's advocate here, I'd actually be arguing that there is such a thing as a soul.

Cuz the devil... and ... ah screw it.

[Akalabeth Angel]

That's the only philosophical objection you raised, to which I'd say: what else could there be? Some kind of soul?

    A human being at its core is just a bunch of chemicals and other materials put together. But can they put together a human in a lab? Has any lab in the world been able to create life? And if so, why not. What more is there to life than the basic elements composing the body? And if there is something more, how is it manufactured or can it be?

[General Battuta]

That's the only philosophical objection you raised, to which I'd say: what else could there be? Some kind of soul?

    A human being at its core is just a bunch of chemicals and other materials put together. But can they put together a human in a lab? Has any lab in the world been able to create life? And if so, why not. What more is there to life than the basic elements composing the body? And if there is something more, how is it manufactured or can it be?

There is a lot more to life than 'the basic elements composing the body.'

The system of a living organism is incredibly complex. Synthesizing it in a lab is a naive and, for the moment, pointless endeavor. It does not reveal anything about whether or not there is a soul.

It's easy to confuse practical problems with philosophical ones, but in this case, the objection you're raising is simply practical -- akin to going out in the 1600s and saying 'has any man been able to build a machine that can fly? Because they have not, what more is there to flight?'

[Mars]

Saying that a human body is nothing more than chemicals is like saying that the a suspension bridge is nothing more than concrete and steel.

[Droid803]

Saying that a human body is nothing more than chemicals is like saying that the a suspension bridge is nothing more than concrete and steel.

A suspension bridge IS just concrete and steel, possibly with rope and wood.

[Mars]

This is just concrete and steel


This is a suspension bridge


Things are not just a sum of their components. That is to say, a splatter of blood and gore on the floor is no longer human, even if it's made of the same stuff.

[General Battuta]

Exactly.

What matters is the arrangement of those components -- the pattern of information.

It is heartening to see such agreement!