Author Topic: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"  (Read 3667 times)

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Offline Darius

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Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I'm contemplating rebalancing the "Keepers of Hell" mission for the final patch.

The new version is going to be a lot easier in that it won't force the player to have to go travel vast distances with Shivans on your tail, instead increasing the importance of the Moloch and bombers, centralising the combat around your home ship after the Ravanas are taken care of. I find this fits the original nature of the mission more than the current version. What are people's thoughts on it?

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I have a confession to make. I cheated, switched my main weapon to a disruptor beam I was making and blasted the beams from my starting position after failing 5 times.

Now that thats out of the way ...

I reckon the main pain point is hitting the beam cannons. I'll assume you'll upload the fixed model. I think if people can take down the Ravanas' main weapons fast enough, that should make the mission markedly easier.
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Offline Darius

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
It does, but there's little room to manoeuvre after that part's over. You need to get those Lilith's beams down in time, full stop, else you fail. What I'm thinking of doing is putting some control back in the player's hands and giving them some space with regard to gameplay.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
So the main things you'll change will be ... ?

Please for the love of God put the Ravanas closer.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
After the massive frustration-fest I went through to barely squeak by this one, I think the main problem was definitely how far away everything is from each other.  The one time that I managed to haul myself to the Ravanas faster than any other attempt, I managed to disarm them with the Keeper at 50% or so...but by the time I made the incredibly lengthy journey back in the other direction toward the Liliths, the Keeper was barely hanging on.  At that point, even the bombers and Moloch posed a formidable threat, and I was insanely lucky that the Keeper jumped out with 2% hull remaining.  And like you said, from the time I worked on the Ravanas to the point when I was able to disarm the Liliths, I had a full Shivan wing right on my tail that I was never able to outrun.  Moving all of the Shivan ships closer to the Keeper (or better yet, closer to each other) might go a long way toward fixing things, as would getting your fellow Vishnan ships to lend a hand with one or two of the Liliths.  Another fix might be to simply move the player start point far closer to the Ravanas at the beginning, so they could be disarmed before doing nearly as much damage to the Keeper.

Also, like someone mentioned in the main release thread when I was asking for advice, this mission would be far easier as-is if you were still flying a Terran ship.  A bank or two of Trebuchets would do wonders for keeping you near the Keeper while still allowing you to de-fang the Shivan heavy hitters.  Perhaps another alternative to changing the mission would be to introduce a Trebuchet-style missile for the Vishnans, although I don't know the logistics of doing so at this point.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
It would be sweet if some Vishnan ships arrived to duel the cruisers. Either fighters or smaller capital ships.

Gives a better feeling of a combined-arms battlefield and a truly epic struggle.

I think that might honestly solve the problem, combined with the fixed Ravana POF. The challenge then becomes getting in and out against the Ravanas without the Shivan fighters tearing you apart.

Also, maybe give the player some kind of tip that leaving their fighters to guard the Keeper is a good move? As opposed to dragging them towards the Ravanas and near-certain death?

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
The mission is ok, just try to make the combat a little more easy at the second part... the keeper takes too much damage from the two cruisers that jump 8000 meters away (I think they were cain class) and to keep it safe from bomber wings and disable their forward beams at the same time is almost imposible.

It was frustrating, but when I finally got through it... oh ... let's just say it felt nice :D
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I saw the Keeper getting raped by too many Shivans, so I hit ~ + SHIFT + I. :nervous:
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I don't think you should use Terran fighters tho. Somehow takes away some of the fun.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
Agreed.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I can beat this mission pretty consistently nowadays, but it took many attempt to get it right at first.  Having to fly such long distances to take care of the Liliths is annoying though.  Maybe position at least one of them within the firing arc of the Keeper's broadside beams (reduce it to SABeam if necessary).  I agree, the bombers should have more significance, as should the Moloch.  Maybe have it attacking the Arbiters...

And a Vishnan long-range missile would be a welcome addition :nod:

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
Only problem with it is that the Liliths jump in too far, especially when I'm fighting on the other side of the Keeper. Perhaps draw them in closer to the battle?
Anyway I still liked it how you used Liliths so effectively for the Shivans though.  :)

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I'm too lazy to check, but I seem to recall the Cain and/or Lilith had their missile turrets replaced with beams for this mod... or am I remembering it wrong?

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
I'm too lazy to check, but I seem to recall the Cain and/or Lilith had their missile turrets replaced with beams for this mod... or am I remembering it wrong?

No.  It's just some sort of weird bug that makes all missile launchers be labled "Beam Turret"

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
The Lilith distance is what made this mission hard.  The fighters you can cope with (that's what wingmen are for).  Actually, I found that ordering the Arbiters around didn't work out so well either.
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Rebalancing "Keepers of Hell"
Give some sort of Vishnan trebuchet or stilleto like missile, and allow it in the weapon selection for that mission. Should get it balanced enough to work fine.