Author Topic: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?  (Read 3971 times)

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Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
I haven't checked out BtRL that much so don't know if there's already something in place.
But has anyone thought of ways to implement the different forms of fighter launching? Like in Galactica the ships rip down a tube. In something like Gundam, (or even modern aircraft carriers) the mecha are fired down a catapult before taking control themselves. Though personally I don't know either one would be implemented. Especially if in the case of Gundam, the catapult was visible or extended somewhat down the exterior hull.

One crazy idea I had, was what if a person made a turret which basically fired mecha-shaped dumfire rockets out of it instead of the usual missiles, but with a short lifespan. And after it's fired, somehow, get the spatial co-ordinates of the rocket (some number relative to the ship) and bring the real fighter in at the exact moment that the missile disappears? Or could a person just have a third way of entry into a mission. One subspace, one pop in, and one fired from a turret. (Though the turret is in fact the launch bay)

Any thoughts?

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Can't you create the illusion of that by using the set speed SEXP with Newtonian dampening activated in ai profiles?
No warp the ship you want to launch, then set its speed to some really high number once it arrives (it "warps" inside the launch tube. It'll shoot out of the launch bay.
The same can be done for the player by doing that, and locking steering until the player is a certain distance away from the "runway".
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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Can't you create the illusion of that by using the set speed SEXP with Newtonian dampening activated in ai profiles?
No warp the ship you want to launch, then set its speed to some really high number once it arrives (it "warps" inside the launch tube. It'll shoot out of the launch bay.
The same can be done for the player by doing that, and locking steering until the player is a certain distance away from the "runway".

        Yeah that could work, but also in the case of a Catapult typically the fighter being launched will accelerate in speed until it's clear of the end of it. So not sure how that would work exactly. I mean, that's a minor detail, but one worth mentioning. I suppose firing the ship out of a turret wouldn't exactly work either. It would have the same effect as the set speed SEXP. With no build-up in velocity.
 
        So setspeed might be the best choice, that is, assuming that it's possible to get the proper positioning and orientation from a moving ship. I haven't played much with FSOpen (I've never touched the thing pretty much) so not sure of all it can do.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
You know what FS2 needs? Trebuchets. Better yet, Trebuchets (the medieval weapon) which launch Trebuchets (the fs2 anti-bomber weapon). Because, y'know, Trebuchets work in space, right?

Obviously they don't. That's a joke.

 
Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
You know what FS2 needs? Trebuchets. Better yet, Trebuchets (the medieval weapon) which launch Trebuchets (the fs2 anti-bomber weapon).

      Can't a person basically do that? Rotate the arm of the weapon, have a fixed firing point where the projectile is released.
      So what are you waiting for? Build it. Give the Bravos something to fight against.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
No, a Trebuchet is gravity-powered.

 
Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
No, a Trebuchet is gravity-powered.

      Yeah, I know what a trebuchet is, bucket of rocks on one end to pull the arm up and over. thing you can still do it at the moment I think. Except for perhaps if it uses a sling. That part might look odd.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
This is relevant to my interests, plus it would be nice to get a working catapult in FSO. Could make for some pretty funny suicides.
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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
This is relevant to my interests, plus it would be nice to get a working catapult in FSO. Could make for some pretty funny suicides.

       Alpha 1: "If I fly close to the hull, the turrets can't even target me, stupid ship."
       [Moments later, a launching ships slams into him at 200 m/s]

       Probably wouldn't go boom, but it would be a rude awakening.

  

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
       Alpha 1: "If I fly close to the hull, the turrets can't even target me, stupid ship."
       [Moments later, a launching ships slams into him at 200 m/s]

       Probably wouldn't go boom, but it would be a rude awakening.
:lol:

Hell of an awakening.

Heh. If he keeps hanging around infront of the catapult, they could always launch Helios' down the catapult. :P
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 09:55:51 pm by Stormkeeper »
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
I once proposed a fighter launching system that was rather cumbersome, but probably doable now that things like scripting exist.

The first thing you need is a properly set up capital ship.  In addition to a launch tunnel, it would also need a series of linked submodels using the animation code.  Now, while subobject translations (that is an animation where the subobject moves in a straight line rather than the rotation effect we're bound to right now) are not currently possible, it can be faked by attaching hinging submodels together and have them trigger rotation animations at the same time.  As an example, if you hold your arm out straight, and then pull it in to touch your shoulder, your forearm and upper arm fold together, rotating around your shoulder, wrist, and elbow for both.  The result is that your hand has moved in a straight line towards your shoulder.  If you can simulate this with a series of submodels, then you can effectively cause your catapult to move in a straight line towards the end of the launch tunnel.  The cool thing is that the submodels, with the exception of the catapult itself, can be made invisible and non-colidable, so they have no effect on anything themselves.

The next step is to attach a dockpoint to the catapult and set the player's initial status as being docked to the catapult.  The tricky thing is the timing.  The swinging of said linked submodels has to be very fast to get the kind of speed you'll want to simulate launch.  Also, a jettison-cargo (or a scripting equivalent) has to be timed to release the player craft from the dockpoint a microsecond before the catapult would reach the end, so it wouldn't pin the player to the catapult when it hit the end.  Submodel animation code also has fields to control acceleration and deceleration (IIRC) of triggered animations so the launch would appear to speed up towards the end of the tunnel, rather than go instantly to max speed and maintain that for the full launch.  Of course, the player would also need to have the controls disabled until the fighter has exited the launch tunnel.

The main reason that I support this kind of launching (for all its cumbersomeness) over simply using the sexp that nudges an object in one direction, is that the later would require that the vessel doing the launching would have to be stationary during the process.  Otherwise the player would deflect off the hull during launch.  Also, I seem to recall problems with that sexp when attempting to use it down the central axis of an object.  It wasn't working for this.
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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Sounds . .. complicated, though cool. Though I don't really understand the process. I mean, rotating objects is cool, but how would the dock point actually progress down the catapult that's what I don't really understand. Oh wait, the arm idea. Right . . . hmmn. Yeah sounds complicated. So, I suppose, technically you could get away with what . . . . 3 subobjects including the dockpoint itself.

Player aside, I presume it can be used effectively with AI as well??? I guess if they have a dock order until launched they won't do anything. Or some sort of scripting order.

Yeah, very cool. Though cumbersome :). If I ever put a suitable ship together I'll see if I can get this thing working.


 

Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Cheat......


Make it a cut scene...

 :D
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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Cheat......


Make it a cut scene...

        That works for the player, but what about all the other non-player ships that might launch mid battle? And while cheating would look cool, getting it to work would BE WICKED cool. (in my opinion)

 
Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Well if you look at the first training mission in BtRL you can have the pilots controls locked out until a specific time and simply ramp their speed up on a given moment down the specified path I would think then return controls upon clearing the tube?
I don't think there is much more to the animation aspects required for it?
Push the afterburner button to begin the sequence and voila you have a tube launch?

 

Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Problem...

They mentioned MOVING ships.

See we had this little issue a while back when you started in a carrier. unfortunately the carrier was in a battle.

We got dinged into the sides randomly from the ship AI moving it. You had to start the mission turning first to find a safe 2 sec path out then hit after burners...

Since the NBSG cariers have side 90 deree tubes apparently you'll side plant even faster... -->/

That's why for times the ship is moving I would go with a cut scene over an in game complete launch.

"Don't think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"

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[I'm Just an idea guy, NOT: a modeler, texturer, or coder... Word of advice, "Watch out for the ducks!"]

Robotech II - Continuing...
FS2 Trek - Snails move faster than me...
Star Blazers: Journey to Iscandar...
FS GUNDAM - The Myth lives on... :)

 
Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
I wondered if the, lets call it $LaunchPath would function as part of the cap ship and move with it?
Contrails don't have any problem following a wingtip so why not $LaunchPath?

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Cutscenes wouldn't be a very good solution for multiplayer especially respawns. 
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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
Admittedly thing like cockpit view would seem a fairly easy to turn into a toggle for the show on and off
Code: [Select]
$Name: Colonial Viper Mark II
+nocreate
$Flags: ("show ship")
and alleviate peoples concerns of when and when not to enforce them.
Whether that would be entwined in the interface or the HUD I haven't found yet.
But this is just from a lamens perspective just reading through the little table in the newcockpitmod_fixed directory.
The problems noticed engaging that little mod has all sorts of bugs on the backend with the latest 10 build.
Thruster animations are stuttering with motion, ship framework overhead when I pan my view up stutter as well.
Afterburners are disabled.
I haven't investigated how complicated the separate 3D cockpit models are yet though either.
Separating them presents potential detail increases for immersion without impacting the 3D ships appearing on our screens outside the ship. Mainly since the 3D cockpit being separate is just on the FPS interface and not the 3D environment sarrounding you.

Back on to topic though, using the $LaunchPath approach presents similiar issues with regard to sideward motion.
The sarrounding Cap Ship/Launch Tube would have to be separated for a period of time to read as static while the environment outside of it can remain Kinetic. Whether that would be read as static in the physics model or a separation of the model environments I'm not sure yet.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 03:08:30 pm by KewlToyZ »

 

Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: Launch Catapults/Tubes and the like?
As indicated in your first post, I'd take this over to BTRL forum, as IIRC they re working on these issues...
(including the suggestions mentioned, sounds intriguing)
 
:D
"Don't think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"

"I am the one and ONLY Star Dragon..."
Proof for the noobs:  Member Search

[I'm Just an idea guy, NOT: a modeler, texturer, or coder... Word of advice, "Watch out for the ducks!"]

Robotech II - Continuing...
FS2 Trek - Snails move faster than me...
Star Blazers: Journey to Iscandar...
FS GUNDAM - The Myth lives on... :)