[Grizzly]

As someone who got his drivers license 2 months ago (I've been driving a lot since) I can tell you one thing for certain - it horrifies me how many people simply disregard everything they learned in driving school.
Honestly, what I would do is put up much harsher penalties. I don't care if the driver has 18 or 30 or 80 years - follow the damn BASIC safety rules.

Like, wearing seatbelts?

We solved that problem nicely in Holland. Not wearing seatbelts is illegal and gives you a heavy fine, and they showed us nice commercials with Crash Test dummies flying trough the windscreen.

I think the heavy fines worked better then the Crash Test Dummy commercial. People care more for money than the lives of themselves and children these days. They think that they are so good that they will not crash anyway (The reason why some people think it should be raised to 18 is because younger people seem to suffer from this problem more often).

[NGTM-1R]

So far as I know the age is 18 in the majority of the US, but you can get a learner's two years earlier. That requires you to have a licensed driver with you when you are driving.

[Uchuujinsan]

My answer would be depending on the place - if there is low traffic and relative low speed like in the countryside, or more general, a low population/traffic density then 16 is ok.
With high population/traffic density like in Europe 18 is the better choice I think.

[TrashMan]

Like, wearing seatbelts?

That too, but more like:

- not keeping enough distance between yourself and the car in front
- overtaking in dangerous areas (like trying to overtake a bus in a sharp turn!!!)
- not giving signals on time
- not paying attention to the signs and arrows on the road (wrong way you moron!)
- not respecting the traffic lights
etc...

[Stormkeeper]

In Singapore you have to be 21 to be able to drive. It used to be 18. There used to be a lot of new drivers getting themselves into accidents too.

[Bob-san]

In Miami, nearly all drivers are really ****ty. Driving their fancy BMWs, Mecedes, Ferraris, Porches, Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Corvettes, and anything else you can think of, but none of them EVER heard of a blinker. IF the blinker goes on at all, it's 2 seconds after they make the turn.

[Herra Tohtori]

Like, wearing seatbelts?

That too, but more like:

- not keeping enough distance between yourself and the car in front
- overtaking in dangerous areas (like trying to overtake a bus in a sharp turn!!!)
- not giving signals on time
- not paying attention to the signs and arrows on the road (wrong way you moron!)
- not respecting the traffic lights
etc...

I'd like to add a few:

-not paying attention (or paying attention to wrong things) -> failure to drive proactively -> reduced reaction time and increased risk of accident.

-making it impossible for others to drive proactively by not giving signals and not driving by the rules -> reduced reaction time for other drivers as well as yourself.

-disregard for others' safety (you might not be the only one involved in a fatal accident) -> you might not feel so good after the fivefold manslaugher because the family in the car you knocked under an 18-wheeler wasn't as lucky as you.

-driving when intoxicated -> reduces your ability to pay attention, reduces your reaction time and motoric abilities, and in general fraks your driving skill up even though you might not realize it.

-driving when tired -> about as dangerous as driving intoxicated. Staying awake for 24 hours equals apprioximately the effects of one promille alcohol in bloodstream, though the effects in different people vary about as much as the effects of alcohol.

-road conditions changing rapidly - black ice is something you can't really do anything against. When you hit it suddenly you can just hope for the best, sometimes stuff like this happens. Other hazards are more manageable, like driving slower when the visibility or traction are reduced by rain or snow.


I think these are probably the most important factors leading to serious accidents, not necessarily in that order but anyways. Most accidents related to car handling skills happen in parking lots, reversing to someone's side mirrors or knocking a towing hook through someone's front bumper. The fatal handling skill related accidents are usually contributed to by some of the above or are self-induced - driving too fast into a corner to be physically able to pull through it, or overcorrecting a drift caused by oversteering.

[Mobius]

In Miami, nearly all drivers are really ****ty. Driving their fancy BMWs, Mecedes, Ferraris, Porches, Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Corvettes, and anything else you can think of, but none of them EVER heard of a blinker. IF the blinker goes on at all, it's 2 seconds after they make the turn.

Ferrari doesn't have a plural form. It's already plural.

[Mars]

I myself got in an accident because I was paying attention to shifting instead of driving (it was my first drive in a manual). Knowing how to drive whatever it is you're going to drive is probably the biggest concern as far as age, but if you bump up the minimum age, 21 year olds become the inexperienced ones.

Therefore I say better driving education would solve most problems, bumping up the age would not.

[Mobius]

But you can deny that 16 years old people aren't as mature as 18 years old ones. I was completely different when I was 16. I changed a lot in the past 2 years and the same thing happened to my mates as well. I wasn't mature enough to drive a car back then(I'm not incredibly mature now, either).

[Mars]

I do agree with you, however, I think that your driving ability should be based off of your driving ability, and not your age.

If you're 16, and you suck at driving, you should fail just as badly as a 43 year old who sucks at driving.

[Mongoose]

So far as I know the age is 18 in the majority of the US, but you can get a learner's two years earlier. That requires you to have a licensed driver with you when you are driving.

That's not the way it works in this state (Pennsylvania), at least.  You can get your learner's permit at age 16 after passing a written exam.  This allows you to drive with another adult (over 21, I think) in the passenger's seat; the adult has to be a parent after something like 11PM.  After six months, during which you're supposed to have completed 50 hours of supervised driving (though really, you can just get your parent to sign off on it), you can go in to take your skills test, which largely consists of driving in a circle on the roads around the DMV office and parallel parking.  If you pass that, you get your junior's license, which I believe is only restricted in that you can't drive after 11PM and face stiffer penalties for infractions.  After a year, you can apply for a regular senior license; you're also automatically eligible for a senior license when you turn 18.

I know that most states allow you to get a permit at 16, with varying levels of waiting time before you can get a full-fledged license; there are a few states that allow you to get a permit at 15, though.  I think just about everyone restricts a full-fledged senior license to the age of 18.  As someone who didn't get his license until he was almost 19, I've always supported raising the driving age somewhat.  Allowing teens to get a permit at 17 rather than 16 would be a big help in and of itself, as would a more stringent testing regimen.

[Mobius]

I do agree with you, however, I think that your driving ability should be based off of your driving ability, and not your age.

If you're 16, and you suck at driving, you should fail just as badly as a 43 year old who sucks at driving.

I don't get your point. It's not a matter of driving abilities because even females can drive cars...

The problem is keeping as far as possible immature people from cars. At the age of 16 a teenager isn't mature enough to have the responsability of driving and managing a car. A teenager may be good at driving but he may be good at doing stupid things as well. Races, idiotic behaviors, etc. etc.

[Dark Hunter]

@Mongoose: Not quite. My state (New Mexico) has everything a year lower, with a learner's permit at 15, 50 driving hours (10 of which must be at night), with someone who has had a liscense for at least 3 years accompanying you, provisional liscense at 16 (can't drive after midnight, only allowed one non-family member in the car with you), and full liscense at 17. The test is harder though... mine had some driving in circles, but also some backwards zigzagging (exactly why they thought this would be helpful is beyond me, but I was driving a PT cruiser for the exam... which has terrible rearview, which made this quite challenging... also this part was obviously not done on an actual street), parallel parking, etc. We were also required to have 3 hours of driving with an instructor, which included parallel parking instruction and highway driving, before getting a provisional liscense.

So I've been driving since the age of 15... and I can tell you one thing: it scared me to death when I first started. I still don't understand how anyone could think they were invincible in such a machine. I'm still pretty cautious, though not as much as I used to be.

[colecampbell666]

I've been driving motor vehicles since I was 5-6, and I am a great driver. I don't think that everything should be set in stone, I think that it should be based on the scores you get on your exam.

[Jeff Vader]

It's not a matter of driving abilities because even females can drive cars...

A woman behind the wheel?

(I didn't say it.)

[Mobius]

Come on, Lobo...you know what I was refering to...

[pecenipicek]

i'd have to agree with trashman. 18+ only for driving licenses.

i for example dont feel quite ready to go learn driving and i'm 19 in 2 months... yet my dear 20 years old cousin still plays it "smart" and drives a ****ing 220 horsepower car around without a license.

by law, you're forbidden to drive a car over 100 horsepower till you hit 21 or 22 and at least 2 years of driving experience...

yet most of the ****ers simply ignore that little fact and drive around in ****ing bombs on wheels... gah i so hate them. however, not more than anyone driving a SUV. (mostly since those who drive it here think its an offroads car and drive it like one. through centre of the ****ing town...


i'll probably go for the motorcycle driving license since i can handle those ****ers pretty well (as well as anything that goes on two weels....)
will either get a scooter or scrounge up money for a random chopper... will be a few years  tho before either

[TrashMan]

The problem with cars with a lot of horespower is that you have no place to unleash it properly. And it begs to be unleashed. And being young and stupid, people do that and than end up running into kids at 120+ Kph. Needless to say it doesn't end happily for the kinds, while the spoiled brats with a pricey car get a slap on the wrist thanks to their rich dads.

****ers like that deserve to fry.

[pecenipicek]

also, to anyone who thinks this doesnt happen, welcome to croatia.

also, trashman, only 120? i've seen a ****er pull a 200+ near my house.
and i often see them doing the same **** in the center of zagreb (zeleni val itd... 200 na sat. jupiii...)