Author Topic: Religulous  (Read 7898 times)

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Offline Flipside

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We tend to define Good and Evil from the point of view of the community, and the species. Things that increase the size of the species or help to prevent the destruction of memes are considered 'good', things that erode the community or destroy social memes are 'bad', I think that's hard-wired into us at a pretty low level.

I think phsychopaths are people who have got that wiring mixed or broken, we are, by nature a group animal, and our mentality has developed around making that work.

For example, groups rely heavily on trust, so people who steal are considered 'bad', however, stealing from another group was considered good, because you are advancing the purposes of your own group. Nowadays we are capable of actually cogitating on the concepts of theft and property, but applying those group memes to a larger 'supergroup' is a rocky process, we fully accept that members of the group should not have their resources and land abused, but we often struggle to apply that same mentality to other groups, because now we are actually going against several million years of meme.

 

Offline Solatar

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I like to think there's an objective moral standard, because otherwise everything is "good"

You might be referring to what's called Natural Law. It's the idea that there are innate "morals" programmed into every person. Killing is bad and is to be avoided (except in obvious cases like war, where it is still considered regrettable) for example.

Also, good and evil are not opposite equals. You do not choose to DO good or DO evil. Evil is the absence of good. If you place them as equals you get all manner of "well, it's all about which one you want to do". When you make a choice, you make a choice to do good or not.

Also from a Catholic standpoint if you say Satan is pure evil and God is pure good then good and evil can't be equals without Christianity being a dualist religion. Satan has just that little bit of good in him given by the fact he's a creation of God.

As for people not being able to accept God is real without proof, I understand. I won't call you faithless if you won't call me stupid. :p

 

Offline Flipside

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Fair enough, but personally, I'd rather have faith in people, they may let you down most of the time, but sometimes they shine like the stars.

 

Offline Solatar

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I agree, I just tack on God to it. If you have no faith in people, your religious life is empty and hollow.

I respect agnostics/atheists who've arrived at that conclusion through reasoned thought. As long as you have a set of morals you follow, I can't in good conscience say you're wrong in them.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Also from a Catholic standpoint if you say Satan is pure evil and God is pure good then good and evil can't be equals without Christianity being a dualist religion. Satan has just that little bit of good in him given by the fact he's a creation of God.

I don't ever recall Christian religion ever saying Good and Evil are equal at all. Good is infinitely more superior.


Quote
As for people not being able to accept God is real without proof, I understand. I won't call you faithless if you won't call me stupid. :p

Agreed. I have quite a few good friends that are atheist. I'd never call em immoral or stupid. (partially cause I'm very picky to whom I call friend. If he was immoral or stupid he wouldnt' even be my friend in the first place  :p )


Altough I have to say, the vast majority of atheists I met so far do treat me with a air of superiority. Either openly or not, they did act and talk like they were intelectually superior and like any religious man is a ignorant pesant.
Not all of them tough. Could be I just keep running mostly into assholes. Life's funny that way :lol:
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Offline Bobboau

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it's probably because most atheists are not born into the mindset, most come into it the same way DeepSpace9er did, at some point in there life they realize how stupid what they have been saying and thinking is and how much they have been holding themselves back because of it. they feel they've had some huge revelation about the world and it was so simple yet they didn't see it because they were blinded by what they thought was faith, but was more likely something like fear. the attitude you feel is actually directed at there former selves, religious people represent that, the self that they abandoned because they did not like how they thought. the atheist assumes that a religious person is just like they were before there revelation, which is unfortunately just as misguided as a born again christian assuming that all non-christians are like they were before they found God.
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Offline Mongoose

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That's a very good point.  There have been discussions I've been involved in when I've felt that certain self-professed atheists have treated religious people with a blanket dismissal of being self-delusional or naive; I've always taken that as somewhat of an insult, since I know that I view my own faith as being at a mature and balanced level (and I'm sure many others would say the same).  I'd never really thought of it as that person viewing that expression of faith as the very delusion they saw themselves as having escaped from.  Maybe it's an almost inevitable viewpoint, no matter how much some of us might try to convince them that "faith" and "rational thought" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

Offline Solatar

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I view condescending atheists in the same light as condescending fundies. Both think they've got some exclusive truth no-one else has, and both seem to dislike me for it.

 

Offline DeepSpace9er

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it's probably because most atheists are not born into the mindset, most come into it the same way DeepSpace9er did, at some point in there life they realize how stupid what they have been saying and thinking is and how much they have been holding themselves back because of it. they feel they've had some huge revelation about the world and it was so simple yet they didn't see it because they were blinded by what they thought was faith, but was more likely something like fear. the attitude you feel is actually directed at there former selves, religious people represent that, the self that they abandoned because they did not like how they thought. the atheist assumes that a religious person is just like they were before there revelation, which is unfortunately just as misguided as a born again christian assuming that all non-christians are like they were before they found God.

I say, Can I get an AMEN?!!!

 

Offline Solatar

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AMEN

[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]

 

Offline TrashMan

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Maybe it's an almost inevitable viewpoint, no matter how much some of us might try to convince them that "faith" and "rational thought" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

QFT!
Never has a truer sentance been spoken on these forums.
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Offline redsniper

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People are agreeing in a thread involving religion on HLP.
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Offline Flipside

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Damn! :nervous:

I disagree! You're all wrong, and you're going to suffer in a mythical zone where very naughty people go!

  

Offline TrashMan

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People are agreeing in a thread involving religion on HLP.

Sign of the Apocalypse?
Or maybe just some us us have grown?
Nah, probably we just don't want to bother with a flame war or are too busy playing some game to have a heated debate :P
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline vyper

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I view condescending atheists in the same light as condescending fundies. Both think they've got some exclusive truth no-one else has, and both seem to dislike me for it.

What about militant atheists? Do we not get any love?
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Offline Mongoose

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No, I just fear you guys as much as I fear militant fundies. :p

 
People are agreeing in a thread involving religion on HLP.

Sign of the Apocalypse?
Or maybe just some us us have grown?
Nah, probably we just don't want to bother with a flame war or are too busy playing some game to have a heated debate :P

It means that those people that tried to set us up against eachother (extremism?) failed.

 

Offline vyper

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No, I just fear you guys as much as I fear militant fundies. :p

Score.

Wait as much? Not more?
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Offline Mongoose

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Depends on the day of the week.

 

Offline KappaWing

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I want to go where Nuke is going.  :drevil:
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