[psyhotik]

Hi! I would like to suggest a small fix of GTVA Colossus model. I'm not a modeller so I don't know if this is possible or make sense but let me try

Colossus model seems to have its 'catchment point' (rotation axis) moved to the rear so it doesn't turn around the center (like other ships) but rather around its rear, 'swinging around like a baseball bat' (try to rotate Colossus in FRED around X or Y axis to see what I mean). This effect can be also observed in model viewer programs so I assume it's the matter of model, not tbl values. Maybe it would be possible to move the catchment point closer to the center of the model to make Colossus turn more realistically? This probably won't change much in original FS2 campaign (this glitch was in Retail too) as Colossus is usually standing still, but may be useful for fan-made missions using Colossus model.

Also one more thing:

The cutscene about Colossus tells it has missile launchers. Tbl shows it has them, but mounted in primary banks - '$Default PBanks:        ( "MX-52" )' - what makes it impossible to change in FRED, because, when selected, this banks becomes primary and can hold only cannons. This can be fixed by changing this banks to '$Default SBanks'. Again, it won't change much, but would be useful for FREDers

[Colonol Dekker]

Genius

Both good points, but the axis one iirc is related to the mission before last where the colly dies /me salutes
Or something

[Vasudan Admiral]

Unfortunately we can't change either of those things, as doing so would break backwards compatability with the retail campaign - as much as I would like to fix the former one. Mods can do that if they need to and I know it *shouldn't* affect anything, but you'd be surprised by the kinds of changes that can break or unbalance retail.

The new Aten I built for example managed to utterly devastate FS' particle rendering system just by being present in a mission.

[psyhotik]

Hmm... That's a point... So maybe a standalone model that campaing creators could download, use and attach to their VPs, so it wouldn't cripple retail campaign? (May not be worth of trouble; I don't know how much work is needed to fix this things.).

[Galemp]

There is a reason for this. See the Mantis note on it.

The missile launcher thing though is obviously a bug.

[Vasudan Admiral]

The missile launcher thing though is obviously a bug.

Oh right - sorry I didn't quite read that one right. Yeah that sort of thing we can fix.

[Stormkeeper]

So just correcting the table entry will fix the missile bank issue?

[Commander Zane]

The new Aten I built for example managed to utterly devastate FS' particle rendering system just by being present in a mission.

This I need to see.

[Zacam]

The full fix is the following as a *-shp.tbm file:

Code: [Select]

+Name: GTVA Colossus
+nocreate
$Subsystem: Turret38, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "Prianha" )
$Subsystem: Turret39, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret42, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret44, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret45, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret46, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret47, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "Piranha" )
$Subsystem: Turret48, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret49, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret50, 0.3, 2.0
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-52" )

It has been tested and works, not surprisingly.

This fix will be in the 3.6.10.

[Commander Zane]

What about news of the high-poly Colossus being downgraded to where it could be usable ingame?

[blowfish]

The full fix is the following as a *-shp.tbm file:

Code: [Select]

+Name: GTVA Colossus
+nocreate
$Subsystem: Turret38, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Prianha" )
$Subsystem: Turret39, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret42, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret44, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret45, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret46, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret47, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Piranha" )
$Subsystem: Turret48, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret49, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )
$Subsystem: Turret50, 0.3, 2.0
$Default PBanks: ( "MX-52" )

It has been tested and works, not surprisingly.

This fix will be in the 3.6.10.

Eh ... that still says Pbanks

[Zacam]

HAH! So that does. But you get the idea, neh?

[Droid803]

well, just change all those P's to S'es when making that TBM.

[Zacam]

Well, it may not actually be that easy. Damn infernal logic.
More in this space in a bit.

[TrashMan]

Unfortunately we can't change either of those things, as doing so would break backwards compatability with the retail campaign - as much as I would like to fix the former one. Mods can do that if they need to and I know it *shouldn't* affect anything, but you'd be surprised by the kinds of changes that can break or unbalance retail.

So? Ship a fixed mission together with the Collie. Crysis averted.

[Stormkeeper]

IMO, mebe you should just release a fixed Coli, and table file, as a seperate download. Then the people can use as and when they wish.

[psyhotik]

Or make a separate tbl entry (add another ship) for fixed Colossus, using fixed model. Retail campaign will use old Colossus and mission creators could use fixed version.

[Zacam]

Or make a separate tbl entry (add another ship) for fixed Colossus, using fixed model. Retail campaign will use old Colossus and mission creators could use fixed version.

A good idea, except it then reduces the available # of ship slots-. Remember, we still have a ship limit until at least 3.7. Not to worry though, a viable solution is being in the works on this.

[Vasudan Admiral]

So? Ship a fixed mission together with the Collie. Crysis averted.

It's finding the errors that's the tough part.

Ships getting destroyed faster than usual because a slightly different beam arrangement on one ship means more guns point at another, new debris chunks behaving differently from the way the original ones did - hitting and doing massive damage to other ships where they shouldn't, different capship radii or bounding boxes meaning that they collide with other capships where they shouldn't, bug fixes like repaired shields making certain ships tougher to kill, or correcting docking paths so they look right for most ships breaking docking for others (as has apparently happened with the new Iceni).

Moving the model centre so the colossus rotates around the middle would mean updating every mission with the colossus in it so that the thing didn't have an extra half-length to travel to reach it's waypoints and was in the right beam cannon sights when it should be. Then of course the big dramatic explosion of the colossus that Galemp describes in a bug report wouldn't occur.

I just don't see this as anywhere near a big enough problem to warrent that sorta fixing effort. As I said, if mods need it they can do it themselves.

[Flipside]

As VA says, changes like that can snowball throughout the entire campaign. The only real solution is to have two Colossi (sp?) which are identical apart from their rotation point (which is a big drag on resources) or to simply supply the required Colossus with the campaign if needed.

Though, from a purely personal perspective, I think the Colossus was a one-off, I don't see the GTVA building another one, but then, if the campaign is well written, no-one would care