[chief1983]

Well part of the premise of this title is that Bush has cause previous trouble in the Middle East.  Like freeing Iraq?  Keeping Iran and its nuclear program at bay?  It's not like he was the first one to intervene in Middle Eastern politics.  Sometimes the president is just doing the best he can to pick up the pieces.  Of course, we could have left Iraq alone, and stayed out of Iran's affairs, etc.  But saying he's caused enough trouble is quite sensational and biased though.

[karajorma]

You really should put sarcasm tags after a comment like that. People might think you're serious when you talk about freeing Iraq.

[captain-custard]

if the military did this on there own , then it still falls on bush as he is the commander in chief as such so the buck stops there ...

Well part of the premise of this title is that Bush has cause previous trouble in the Middle East.  Like freeing Iraq?  Keeping Iran and its nuclear program at bay?  It's not like he was the first one to intervene in Middle Eastern politics.  Sometimes the president is just doing the best he can to pick up the pieces.  Of course, we could have left Iraq alone, and stayed out of Iran's affairs, etc.  But saying he's caused enough trouble is quite sensational and biased though.

bush did not free Iraq , yes he did remove Saddam from power but at the same time had zero  planning in place for the ppl and at the last count more than 200,000 civilians dead..., as for the Iranian nuclear program , that we will never know as it has been as well managed as the weapons of mass distruction , and alkidah links in Iraq, there will always be tension in this region as Long as the Israel /Palestine issue is unresolved with the Israel state holding a nuclear arsenal and willing to use it, other countries will try to have a nuclear deterrent,

and never forget only one country has used nuclear weapons against civilans

[Snail]

Blinks.

Well part of the premise of this title is that Bush has cause previous trouble in the Middle East.  Like freeing Iraq?  Keeping Iran and its nuclear program at bay?  It's not like he was the first one to intervene in Middle Eastern politics.  Sometimes the president is just doing the best he can to pick up the pieces.  Of course, we could have left Iraq alone, and stayed out of Iran's affairs, etc.  But saying he's caused enough trouble is quite sensational and biased though.

Are you being serious here?

[chief1983]

A true magician never reveals his secrets.

[captain-custard]

A true magician never reveals his secrets.

but he does get bit by the rabbit and shat on by the doves from time too time

[Snail]

A true magician never reveals his secrets.

You're not a magician though.

[Flipside]

I suppose the way I look at it is that if the Iran military launched a missile attack on a nearby country, you can be damn sure that Bush, or anyone else, would not be saying 'Don't blame Ahmadinejād, it was his army that did it.'

[StarSlayer]

God i wish we had made it a national mission to break ourselves of oil dependence 7 years ago.  By now we could have broken loose and could actually be fairly objective with our dealings with the region.  That or it would have been nice if we had looked a little beyond the USSR during the Cold War   Well hopefully the next administration keeps their eye on the ball when it comes to energy independence.

While it's funny to point and laugh at the US and the FUMTU situation thats been our current administration's foreign policy; against the whole of historical screw ups its relatively minor.  The US has only been in a position to screw over other countries for 50 years, most nations have been doing it for centuries, even millennia.

 

[Flipside]

I suppose it's more a question of when that who, the US is in the unfortunate position of being the 'Empire' of the information age, where the whole world is watching.

50 years ago, if the UK bombed a village of dissidents in India, nobody in the UK really found out unless the Government wanted them to, and when people did find out, maybe 40 years later, then its a case of 'Well, that was then, we've changed.', which makes it sound like a voluntary thing, not the fact that everyone is now watching.

Psychology and Politics are a dangerous mixture.

[captain-custard]

politics and anything is a dangerous mixture


scratch that


politics are dangerous when in the hands of idiots

scratch that

politics are just dangerous

and psychology is for sheep

[Mars]

Yeah, I suppose people who are about to commit terrible acts and kill people wouldn't really be helped by psychology would they. 

(my point is, there's a place for it, and it's not just for sheep)

Hell, I think a lot of politicians would be helped by a little counseling.

[captain-custard]

Yeah, I suppose people who are about to commit terrible acts and kill people wouldn't really be helped by psychology would they. 

(my point is, there's a place for it, and it's not just for sheep)

Hell, I think a lot of politicians would be helped by a little counseling.

counselling maybe , i think a lot of politicians would be helped more by water boarding.....

[Flipside]

The danger of Psychology and Politics is the fact that it works. If it didn't apply to the majority, it wouldn't be a very viable form of psychology.

Politicians themselves have always had a knack for it anyway, otherwise they wouldn't last long as politicians, however, nowadays large sums of money are spent paying people to work this stuff out. Take, for example, the growing belief that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, or the fact that so few questions are asked about the supposed WMD's that Saddam had nowadays.

Millions of local currency are spent by governments in finding ways not to deal with problems, but to avoid admitting they actually exist, or in playing them down as someone elses' problem. It's much easier, apparently, to stick their nose into peoples' personal lives, tell them how to live, how to raise their children etc, than to actually take responsibility for things like education which have a direct effect on quality of life. So they tell people 'you should be living better lives' whilst taking no tangible action to give them the opportunity to do so.

[captain-custard]

like i said

and psychology is for sheep

as long as we lie on our backs and except what politicians do and say then we are sheep... hudling together and waiting


politics must have a sense of responsibility and community but as soon as we see any form of politics trying to do this it is daemonised by the  large "democratc" states

[Kosh]

God i wish we had made it a national mission to break ourselves of oil dependence 7 years ago.  By now we could have broken loose and could actually be fairly objective with our dealings with the region.  That or it would have been nice if we had looked a little beyond the USSR during the Cold War   Well hopefully the next administration keeps their eye on the ball when it comes to energy independence.

Damn straight, but with the stranglehold the oil industry has on our political system (the politicians like Bush who placate them) I'm somewhat skeptical that this will happen.

[Kie99]

'US strike' on Pakistani village

At least 15 people have been killed in a suspected US missile strike in Pakistan, security officials said.[/b]

They said the attack hit a house in the village of Mir Ali, in North Waziristan, bordering Afghanistan.

Reports said the target of the attack was an al-Qaeda operative, but it was unclear if he was among the dead.

Officials named the man as Abu Kasha, believed to be Iraqi. Residents said a Pakistani tribesman lived in the house. The US military has not commented.

The US has launched many missile strikes from Afghanistan against suspected militant targets recently.

Border tension

In Friday's incident, two missiles were fired by a pilotless "drone" aircraft, anonymous officials told Reuters news agency.

On Sunday, a suspected US missile strike killed 20 people, including a top Taleban commander Mohammad Omar in South Waziristan, witnesses and officials said.

Tensions between the US and Pakistan have increased over the issue of cross-border incursions against militants by American forces based in Afghanistan.

Pakistan's foreign ministry said it had voiced its concern to the US envoy in Islamabad on Wednesday.

"It was underscored to the ambassador that the government of Pakistan strongly condemns the missile attacks which resulted in the loss of precious lives and property," the ministry said in a statement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7702679.stm

[Grey Wolf]

Just as a twist: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/10/syria-did-damas.html

[karajorma]

It does seem a bit of a reach to me to say that Syria must have authorised the raid simply because they didn't shoot down the American helicopters. Especially when there is another obvious reason why they didn't.

Because they're not ****ing stupid!

[Herra Tohtori]

It couldn've been the frakking Scorponok and we wouldn't be any wiser... That said, I suppose karajorma's explanation is the more probable of the two, but apparently anything is possible in that area.