Author Topic: Ship Construction  (Read 2398 times)

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Offline Krallis

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Okay how are the various effects "spawned" on a ship. How does the game know where to put weapons fire (im coming over to this from Unreal III which uses bones to do this).

How does fRED do it and is their any special "setting up"(skeleton,any specific animations etc.) of the model I need to do before exporting from XSI to Collada format.
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Offline Mobius

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You may wish to use Model VIEW and/or PCS2. These tools mark firing points, engine glows and such effects. :)
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Offline Angelus

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I use the Trueview plugin in Truespace 3.2 to add turrets, debries, LODs.

Then i import the Model in PCS2, convert it to pof, from there i edit the pof, means adding thrusters, dockingpoints, glowpoints, Subsystems aso.

Since i made the turrets ( base, arm, firepoints ) in Truespace, i don't need to add the firepoints manually.
All i do is checking if anythings went wrong during import/ conversion.

 

Offline Krallis

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I take it, base are and firepoints are the bones in the skeleton of a turret.

Does the ship need a skeleton.
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Offline Angelus

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I take it, base are and firepoints are the bones in the skeleton of a turret.

Does the ship need a skeleton.

Nope.

In truespace with the trueview plugin, you glue a local light to each part, means the hull gets a local light,
the sub objects ( debries, LODs - each gets a local light) aso.

For the turrets: the turretbase gets one, the turret arm ( subobject of the turret base )gets one at the point where
it's supposed to rotate.
If the turret has 2 firing points, you add 2 local lights, one for each firing point.

I'll upload a pic what it looks like in TS, gimme a few minutes...


There ya go:


« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 01:30:21 pm by Angelus »

 

Offline Krallis

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Sounds like firing sockets in Unreal 3 to me.

In that case bones should do the job nicely.
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Offline bizzybody

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No bones about it. ;) You just need the axes pointing the right directions so your ship doesn't end up flying sideways with the turrets shooting through the hull.

FS doesn't grok kinematics.
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Offline Retsof

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Quote
FS doesn't grok kinematics.
:wtf:
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Offline Galemp

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Offline Retsof

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I'm gonna have to remember that, "let me google that for you".  :lol:
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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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You seem to be getting conflicting sporadic information here and in your other thread, so here's essentially how the process works:

1) Build and texture your ships main hull object (in softimage XSI is it?). For in-game efficiency sake you should aim for a single UV mapped image, but that's not a requirement. Call this object 'detail0'.

2) Model and texture turrets and other subobjects (usually things that rotate in some way like radar dishes) that you need the game to treat as independent from the main hull.

At this point, say you had a two part (base and arm) style turret you wanted to have. Here's what you'd need there:
  • A) *REQUIRED* A turret base object with it's centre located at the point you want the whole turret to pivot around. (Call it say; 'Turret01-base')
    If it's a topside turret face it forwards, if it's a belly turret face it backwards. (You can now do other orientations but don't worry about them yet)
     
  • B) *REQUIRED* A turret arm object with it's centre located at the pivot point of the arm shape. Ie, in the base somewhere so they look attached. ('Turret01-arm')
    Turret arms should always point straight out of the base they're attached to. Also, only have one turret arm object per turret base object. However, since the arm can look like whatever you want, you can model it so there are up to 3 or 4 arms in that one object.
     
  • C) *OPTIONAL* An (empty/helper/whatever XSI calls objects that have no geometry) called 'firepoints#' where # is some number thats only purpose is to prevent any two helpers having the same name. Doesn't matter where this is located, but typically it's placed somewhere in the turret base object for convenience.
     
  • D) *OPTIONAL* Some helper(s) of any name (let's call them "FP01", "FP02" for now) positioned on the firing point(s) of the turret. Ie, if your turret has 2 gun barrels you'd have two of these helpers positioned at the tips of each barrel. These helpers should be orientated so their Z axis is in-line with the barrel arm, as this defines the direction in which the guns firepoints face in relation to the barrels.
     
  • E) *REQUIRED* Now set up the turrets hierarchy like so:

    detail0
    |
    |-Turret01-base (MULTI-PART TURRET, 2 BARRELS)
    |     |
    |     |-Turret01-arm
    |     |-firepoints01
    |            |
    |            |-FP01
    |            |-FP02
    |
    |-Turret02 (SINGLE PART TURRET, ONE FIREPOINT)
    |     |
    |     |-firepoints02
    |            |
    |            |-FP03
    |

3) Build (or rather poly reduce a copy of the main LOD) up to 4 LODs. Position them in the same location (with the same object centre locations) as detail0 and name them detail1-3. Also make sure these use the same texture as the main LOD unless doing so is really really impossible and you're crazy about getting pretty lods. Do not make these objects children of detail0 or anything.

4) Build debris chunks (I do this by ripping up a copy of detail1 and filling in the holes) and place them in their appropriate locations in relation to the original model. Name them 'debris##' where ## starts at 01.Do not make these objects children of detail0 or anything.

5) If the ship needs a shield, make it out of an untextured, roughly 80 faced sphere object that's been mashed around to fit the ship's shape correctly. Call it "shield".

6) Save as Collada DAE and open it up in the Collada version of PCS2. Save it as a POF somewhere straight away. ;)

7) Now add POF data, still using PCS2. The best place to go to learn about how all the settings work is Bobboau's PCS1 tutorial. Pretty much everything there still applies to PCS2, though it should be noted that you can now grab and drag your firepoints, subsystem centres etc around by holding ctrl + dragging. Takes a bit of getting used to, but it works pretty well. :)

The POF data typically entered/edited in a completed ship includes:
Header
--> Mass (Automatically done during conversion)
--> Moment of Inertia (Click 'Recalculate' to do that automatically)

Subobjects
--> Add subobject properties to each non-LOD and non-Debris object in the model.
For turrets this would be:

$special=subsystem
$fov=180
$name=GunTurret

Where fov is Field Of View cone and name isn't used.
--> Set up rotation Type and Axis for those turrets that do rotate.

Weapon Points
--> Gun and missile point banks, locations and normals for fighters and bombers only.

Docking Points
--> Set up a name like "$name=main dock"
--> Assign a path that ships use to get to it.
--> Add two dockpoints with the correctly facing normals, and about 1 unit apart to define orientation.

Thrusters
--> Set up engine properties to be "$engine_subsystem=$engines" where "$engines" is the name of the ships engine subsystem.
--> Set up individual thruster glow locations, radii and normal orientations.

Glow Points
--> Typically only on terran ships, set up the static or blinking points of light that appear on ships hulls.

Special Points
--> Set up the default 5 subsystems: $communications, $navigation, $sensors, $weapons, $engines
--> Define properties of "$special=subsystem" for each one.
--> Set up radii and locations for each one.

Turrets
--> Should all be done automatically already if you followed the optional steps in 2).
--> If not, set up each turret individually, with:
--> A parent subobject (the base)
--> A physical subobject (the arm)
--> A normal for the whole turret - ie, where the barrels point.
--> Locations for each firing point relative to the turret base.

Paths
--> Just be lazy and do this last by clicking Auto Gen. ;) Look to Bob's guide if you want to know more/fiddle.

Eye points
--> Sets up the parent subobject, location and normal direction of where the bridge/cockpit is on each ship.

Shield
--> Should be done during conversion. Can't edit it here but you can import shields from other ships.


8) Make a TBM (table) entry for the ship. The wiki should help greatly here: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tables

9) Test in the ship lab by pressing F3 in the main hall.

Hope this helps. :)
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Offline Krallis

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So I dont need a null (which is basivally a bone in XSI) in the actual turret to use as its pivot point then?

So I amek the debris in the same scene aswell.

and I take it for fighters you just parent the firepoints to detail0
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 05:19:33 am by Krallis »
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Offline Angelus

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1. So I dont need a null (which is basivally a bone in XSI) in the actual turret to use as its pivot point then?

2. So I amek the debris in the same scene aswell.

3. and I take it for fighters you just parent the firepoints to detail0

Yes to the second and the third one.


 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Object pivot points in-game depend on where the object's centre is in the 3d program before hand. Once in POF form that can't be changed.

Yeah debris is made in the same scene as the rest.

For fighters you'd just build the mesh and texture it, add LODs, Debris and a shield, convert and then add all that POF info (like firepoints) in PCS2.
Turret firepoints are not the same things as weapon hardpoints (gun banks and missile banks), so you can't mix them up. (Don't bother setting them up in the modeller - it's quicker and easier in PCS2. ;) )
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Offline Aardwolf

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So I dont need a null (which is basivally a bone in XSI) in the actual turret to use as its pivot point then?

A "null"? What the heck is a null? No, you don't need to use some feature or terminology that doesn't exist or apply here, and you definitely don't need to define what it is using the terms XSI uses.