Author Topic: Just watched Firefly...  (Read 6418 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Just watched Firefly...
And it was about time. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Still not done watching it, but so far my impressions are as follows:

Interesting story, interesting characters, interesting dialogues. Definately trumps most shows out there.
The only gripe I have is design (ye gods, what moron designed the alliance cruiser???) and the setting background fluff .

Hunderds of years into the future and they're using M-16's?? Makes no sense.... Humanity trashed Earth and fled in a fleet of starships, then using the resources on those starships terraformed and colonized many worlds. Making a fleet of starships to flee Earth in first place = future. Terraforming worlds with limited resources = a difficult and long undertaking = a LOT more in the future. They have holographic billiard on every planet, but old sawed-off shutguns seem to be the most prominent weapon around.
And ... River..not exactly the highpoint of logic there.

Anyway, a very good show who's flaws can be easily overlooked by the good characters and story. :nod:
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Firefly was meant to be a Western in space. The reasoning behind the outer planets having such low-tech weapons was the result of the civil war. Also, if you'll notice, the guns don't fire bullets--they do fire energy bursts, but they do resemble weapons from the Old West. The Alliance does use some fairly high-level technology though.

Also, IIRC, the design of the Alliance ships is intentional. It's supposed to illustrate the Alliance's ineffeciency.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Wouldn't be Firefly with phasers  :P.  I know in the David Weber Honor Harrington series it's often postulated that their is some tech regression that occurs during colonization, if something goes wrong.  it's possible that the colonists suffered some setbacks when they reached the new system and had to build their way back up again.  Plus in general it takes place out in the sticks were everything is hardscrabble and dirt poor especially after a massive civil war that they lost.  The inner colonies are supposed to be the more progressive technological ones.  Plus slug throwers do the job handily.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Yup, good old slug-throwers are effective.

Still, it's like sending soldiers to fight in Iraq with muskets. 50 years old? K.. 100? oooooKaaaay.
200+ ??? now were' getting into weird territory.


Quote
Also, IIRC, the design of the Alliance ships is intentional. It's supposed to illustrate the Alliance's ineffeciency.

Which raises the question - how the hell could they have won with such deathtrap ship designs?
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Because the Independents were even lower tech.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
I liked Firefly the first time I saw it.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
I liked Firefly the first time I saw it.

Those don't look all that similar. Have you seen Firefly? It's not quite as good as neo-BSG (very different shows, granted), but it's a great time nonetheless.

The weapons in Firefly largely fire caseless ammunition, not energy rounds. But I do believe we see sonic weapons at least once in the series.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Wouldn't be Firefly with phasers  :P.  I know in the David Weber Honor Harrington series it's often postulated that their is some tech regression that occurs during colonization, if something goes wrong.  it's possible that the colonists suffered some setbacks when they reached the new system and had to build their way back up again.  Plus in general it takes place out in the sticks were everything is hardscrabble and dirt poor especially after a massive civil war that they lost.  The inner colonies are supposed to be the more progressive technological ones.  Plus slug throwers do the job handily.

Well, nothing here stated technological regression. Keep in mind, that terraforming Mars itself is something that would take 300 years at least, even with all of Earths resources. So terraforming a dozen planets with only limited resources would take a LOT more. So we're talking a whole LOT into the future.

I wouldn't find it strange that some rifles have similar designs to current ones, but old sawed-off shotguns with wooden handles? Oh, not to mention that alliance soldiers were carrying MP5's.
One could also wonder - what's the point of a dozen half-assed colonies with 2 small towns each? A single of those planets has room to spare. So why expand and form little dinky towns on barely terraformed planet X when you can just form a new town on a sparsely populated planet?
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Yup, good old slug-throwers are effective.

Still, it's like sending soldiers to fight in Iraq with muskets. 50 years old? K.. 100? oooooKaaaay.
200+ ??? now were' getting into weird territory.


Er, not really. I would be absolutely terrified of assaulting a fortified enemy position armed with an assault rifle such as RK-95 or some M-16 series variant, while the enemy would be wielding something like well preserved good quality Lee-Enfields (1895), Mosin Nagants (1981) (especially Finnish manufactured versions) or K98 Mauser (1898) rifles or equivalent stuff... Especially if the terrain were open, and if the enemy were well trained. Those old rifles pack quite a bit of punch. Muskets and equivalent are more like... 300 years old.

Situation would obviously change a bit if it were a prepared assault with an artillery/mortar strike to soften the enemy up and an armoured transport to escort us close enough that the larger fire power of assault rifles would start to make a difference.

The weapons aren't the only thing that dictates an outcome of an engagement, or battle, or a war. It would be very possible to organize effective military/militia units armed with 100-year-old weapons, even these days - and in the future that will be even easier since A. Kalashnikov's design will probably be eternal. The limitations of the weapons would dictate some tactics, but using their advantages it would be possible to fight and win a modernly armed and armoured infantry unit. You just need to remember that all warfare is based on deception, therefore as long as you can deceive the enemy you can win even with inferior weaponry or lesser numbers. Of course, the fact that modern infantry is supported by very accurate and effective intelligence system makes deception a lot harder than it used to be in, say, WW2, Korea or Vietnam. Nowaday one of the still effective ways to inflict damage to a vastly more powerful and better organized enemy would be roadside bombs and, if terrain allows, guerilla tactics... though satellites and drone planes would be a serious problem. But, as long as you could minimize the advantage that the enemy gains from better equipment and larger numbers, and maximize the advantages of your weaponry and mobility of small groups, things aren't ever written in stone.

Underhanded tactics like using civilians as human shields and resorting to terrorism aren't really any means of warfare in my books, though, but criminal acts. :ick:

Spoiler:
There was some work done on Earth that Was with laser weaponry - as demonstrated by the Lassiter gun, which is mostly a curiosity and antique.


edit: Also, talking about seeing modern day weaponry on tv series such as Firefly or Battlestar Galactica - yeah, it happens. It's more viable to get an assortment of replica guns than design all kinds of new weaponry; that usually leads to hand phaser/laser/twinkler guns that look like super soakers or toy lugers painted black. If you want to talk about unrealistic, how about the fact that Galactica crew uses modern day Earth weaponry. It doesn't need to be viewed as directly as that. Just view them as guns. Kinda like the fact that the characters in Lord of the Rings were actually talking Westron and Tolkien "translated" it to English, along with stuff like Hobbit names and so on... :p


Also, sawed off shotgun will probably remain forever the most effective close quarters firearm and it's ease of concealment will make it a continuous favourite of shady characters, just like Kalashnikov's design's brilliance will stay valid for as long as projectile weapons are used at all. :blah:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 05:40:33 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
It's Joss Whedon-- style takes precedent. He's not trying to write predictive science fiction (and thank god because that's the easiest way to create trite bull****). If you get bogged down in the technical details of "Firefly", I think you're watching it with too pedantic an eye.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Gotta agree with Ford here, the suspension of belief is vital, after all, if I looked at films such as Star Wars, Lord of The Rings, Wizard of Oz etc logically, they'd make no sense whatsoever :)

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Just watched Firefly...

Er, not really. I would be absolutely terrified of assaulting a fortified enemy position armed with an assault rifle such as RK-95 or some M-16 series variant, while the enemy would be wielding something like well preserved good quality Lee-Enfields (1895), Mosin Nagants (1981) (especially Finnish manufactured versions) or K98 Mauser (1898) rifles or equivalent stuff... Especially if the terrain were open, and if the enemy were well trained. Those old rifles pack quite a bit of punch. Muskets and equivalent are more like... 300 years old.

Well yes. You point? Firefly is how far along into the future? I'd guess a minimum of 300 years, probably more.

I know I'm probably overanalyzing this, it's a nasty habit, but I can't help it.


Quote
The weapons aren't the only thing that dictates an outcome of an engagement, or battle, or a war. It would be very possible to organize effective military/militia units armed with 100-year-old weapons, even these days - and in the future that will be even easier since A. Kalashnikov's design will probably be eternal. The limitations of the weapons would dictate some tactics, but using their advantages it would be possible to fight and win a modernly armed and armoured infantry unit. You just need to remember that all warfare is based on deception, therefore as long as you can deceive the enemy you can win even with inferior weaponry or lesser numbers. Of course, the fact that modern infantry is supported by very accurate and effective intelligence system makes deception a lot harder than it used to be in, say, WW2, Korea or Vietnam. Nowaday one of the still effective ways to inflict damage to a vastly more powerful and better organized enemy would be roadside bombs and, if terrain allows, guerilla tactics... though satellites and drone planes would be a serious problem. But, as long as you could minimize the advantage that the enemy gains from better equipment and larger numbers, and maximize the advantages of your weaponry and mobility of small groups, things aren't ever written in stone.

I'm not talking about tactics here...Just equipment. Is there any military in the world today that uses 200 year old weapons? No.


Quote
Also, sawed off shotgun will probably remain forever the most effective close quarters firearm and it's ease of concealment will make it a continuous favourite of shady characters, just like Kalashnikov's design's brilliance will stay valid for as long as projectile weapons are used at all. :blah:

You really think so? Sawed-off shotguns are pretty old even now. And they usually have wooden body - that doesn't age very well.
Not to mention that old weapons can't stay competitive forever.
You really think a M-16 or AK-47 will be effective against body armor from 300 years in the future?

So yeah, they probably used current weaponry to cut costs - that still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't really look right.


Look, I'm just stating my observation here. No show is perfect. Some less then others. Firefly has some flaws.
That doesn't mean the show is bad in any way - I said before the flaws are rather minor.

As it is I like it more than the new BSG, B5 and DS9, VOY or ENT. So that basicely means it rocks.
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Offline Charismatic

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
I love Firefly. And yeah their ships were like flying cities. Looked retarted but, their big. Which could have helped them win in a ship vs ship engagement.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
The Alliance patrol cruisers seen in 'Firefly' are very different from the combat ships in 'Serenity', suggesting that maybe they're not really intended as mainline combat warships.

 
Re: Just watched Firefly...
Yeah. They struck me more as gigantic mobile police stations than warships.
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Offline MR_T3D

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
gawd i love that show...


but 200 years ago, weapons that were 60 years old were faily different.

gradual invention such as cased rounds, automatic firing, were being invented, and i cannot think of much that would revolutionize LEATHAL weapons in the future, other than crazy lasers and such, but then we worry about battery levels ;7

 

Offline colecampbell666

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
IIRC, I read on the Firefly wiki a good theory. The colonist's weapons are old because there was a ban on new tech enacted, and old guns could be grandfathered in. The alliance is the only authority allowed to carry lasers and the like. It's possible.

I recently finished it (and Serenity as well) and I liked it a lot. It was very original, a good show all around.
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Do reavers feature in Firelfly?

I'm afraid i've only seen serenity.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Do reavers feature in Firelfly?

I'm afraid i've only seen serenity.

Yeah, they do.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Just watched Firefly...
Do they still have the Freakin huge ship?  ;7
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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