[Enioch]

I've been reading this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,57778.0.html
and it seems the argo has had less love than it deserves. 

I've also done some searching, and I found that a couple of years ago there had been an attempt by FireCrack (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38064.0.html); unfortunately the model was corrupted and it seems there has been no revival.

I dunno if I will ever be able to texture this; I tend to be overly meticulous and, if I take on its texturing as well, this thing will gobble up all of my free time. But I'm pretty sure that I will finish the model before New Year (we'll see if I'm mistaken)

IMPORTANT-> I am not familiar with the rules concerning HTL'ing of ships in this community. If there is a problem with me picking up something that somebody else was working on (though, keep in mind that it seems as if the Argo was abandoned), tell me so, and I will gladly scrap the model and let the rightful modeler finish the job.

As you can see, I was inspired by FireCrack to some extent. But then I added some of my personal touches! 

Currently sitting at ~3400 tris (less than 2000 polies). Optimized on-the-fly.

Feedback please?

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Yey! The Argo!

Only thing I don't really like is the front, with the bulgy thing at the top and the rather strange docking ring. Apart from that, it's nice.

[Enioch]

Yey! The Argo!

Only thing I don't really like is the front, with the bulgy thing at the top and the rather strange docking ring. Apart from that, it's nice.

I know what you mean..

I'm thinking about re-designing the front part. I hate the 'bulgy thing' as well, but it's part of the ship -it's on the original as well. I might 'change' it a bit though.

And I'm afraid I'll have to put my foot down on the 'strange docking ring'. Although it's not finished, I like it like that.

Still, if the majority votes for a change, I'll try it out.

[Rodo]

you could replace that square part at the back and replace it with more smaller thrusters.

Good you picked this up I love this transport, hope to see it htl'd in a near future

[Galemp]

Looking good! Excellent, in fact.

Try smoothing out those curved panels on the starboard side (second pic.) And for the docking ring, remember that the dockpoint has to end up flush with the hull of the dockee; having it inset like that isn't good.

The engines could use a few more sides. Bump them up to 16.

[Vasudan Admiral]

My 3 suggestions would be:
1) As has been said, the front dockport looks a bit out of place - the texture indicates a rounded part to it which I'd say would help considerably. I'd love to see some interesting greebling around it too.

2) More rounded and probably chunkier engines - octagons look a bit out of place. I'd suggest something a bit more like firecracks engines in terms of shape (FS doesn't really use booster rocket type engines), but with better and more interesting recesses for the actual glow.

3) Overall greebles and recesses - moar! The greebles in the recesses on the starboard side are great, but the port side looks a bit empty compared to it. (This may be because you've not finished yet?) Some deeper reaching recesses and more pipe and gadget details would be great.

Anyway, overall it's looking very very nice. Keep it up. 

[Droid803]

HTL Argo!

[Black Wolf]

Gotta back up the majority consensus here - I like the direction the greebling's going and all that, but I think the dockpoints, both the sets of 2 and 3 on the left and right and the main one on the front - should be round. Other than that, though, looking good.

[Enioch]

You could replace that square part at the back and replace it with more smaller thrusters.

I will, probably. But rounded many-sided engines tend to gobble up tris, so this will be the last thing I do -I prefer to save up tris for the greebling.

Try smoothing out those curved panels on the starboard side (second pic.) And for the docking ring, remember that the dockpoint has to end up flush with the hull of the dockee; having it inset like that isn't good.

Panels: check. Front dock: not check. I intend to greeble docking clamps into the 'ring' around the dockpoint. There's got to be a way the Argo can attach itself onto other ships' docks...

The engines could use a few more sides. Bump them up to 16.

Right.

1) As has been said, the front dockport looks a bit out of place - the texture indicates a rounded part to it which I'd say would help considerably. I'd love to see some interesting greebling around it too.

Working on it.

2) More rounded and probably chunkier engines - octagons look a bit out of place. I'd suggest something a bit more like firecracks engines in terms of shape (FS doesn't really use booster rocket type engines), but with better and more interesting recesses for the actual glow.

Right. I'll see what I can do.

3) Overall greebles and recesses - moar! The greebles in the recesses on the starboard side are great, but the port side looks a bit empty compared to it. (This may be because you've not finished yet?) Some deeper reaching recesses and more pipe and gadget details would be great.

I'm still working on the port and bottom sides, although the bottom is nearly done. Trust me, I'll greeble it as much as I can. But I think I ought to leave a few large flat surfaces, to represent the ship's armor.

HTL Argo!

Yeah! Imagine that!

I think the dockpoints, both the sets of 2 and 3 on the left and right and the main one on the front - should be round. Other than that, though, looking good.

No. No. NO! (j/k)

I thought so too, until I had a look at the textures on the original Argo. The dockpoint is clearly hexagonal. And though I've changed a lot of things (mainly the inclination of the dock-bearing panels on both port and starboard side), I'm still determined to stay true to the original design. I might MSmooth it a bit, to bevel the sharp edges ( ) but the overall 'hexagonal-y' look will remain.

Long post, sorry.

And a couple more renders: the all-but-panel-rounding-finished starboard side and the WIP bottom.

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Black Wolf]

Hmm, I think I see what you're getting at, for the main dockpoint anyway. Maybe you could do something like this? (See attached)

The port and starboard ones I'm not convinced about though

Incidentally, that new ventral side -
Looks better than the Argo really has any right to.

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Getting better. The bulgy thing is still there, it's probably the bridge. I suggest the texturer puts some nice Aeolus-like window glowmaps there.
Don't add too small details, they're more efficient with normal maps. In other words, don't add details smaller than the ones you have now, those are good.
And IMHO, you can stick to the original four thrusters. Just make them somewhat rounder, like GalEmp said.

[Enioch]

Hmm, I think I see what you're getting at, for the main dockpoint anyway. Maybe you could do something like this? *snip*

The port and starboard ones I'm not convinced about though

I was thinking something like this (see att.). And I'm not wasting any polies on the side docks -plus, I like them that way. One more bevel is all I'm ready to give them right now. I'll see about improving them later on, especially if the majority goes for it, but don't count on it.

Incidentally, that new ventral side -
Looks better than the Argo really has any right to.

Praise, for the modeler, is sometimes worth more than gold.

Getting better. The bulgy thing is still there, it's probably the bridge.

I checked the original POF again. It's the communications subsys. So, I'm going to change it a bit, maybe put some recessed panels on it and slap some radar dishes, antennae etc.

And I'm sticking to four thrusters; I'll just change their shape a bit, to match those of FireCrack. I'm planning to greeble them around where they join the hull as well; I'll see if I got any polies to spare...

BTW, Is this still valid?

    Fighters/Bombers - Less than 6000 Polygons

    Cruisers/Freighters - 6000-12000 Polygons

    Corvettes - 14000-18000 Polygons

    Destroyers - 20000-24000 Polygons

    Juggernauts - 24000 Polygons upwards

And by 'polygons', I take it he means post-triangulation, right?

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Black Wolf]

Hmm, I think I see what you're getting at, for the main dockpoint anyway. Maybe you could do something like this? *snip*

The port and starboard ones I'm not convinced about though

I was thinking something like this

I can live with that
Though you will have to be careful when you put the dockpoint onto the pof so that it's flush with the furthest faces of the hexagon rather than the flat face of the circular bit. Looks good though.

Those polylimits are more guidelines than solid limits, but they look fairly close to what you should be aiming for. And yeah polys=tris

[Enioch]

Right.  Feedback time.

Check out the render downstairs. What about the big flat surface on the port side? That little cubic lump on the middle-rear part (the one with the new shiny piping and modules) is the weapons subsystem.

(Just out of curiosity, would you place the only thing that keeps your two damn blob turrets working, on the outside of the ship where it gets only minimal protection? Why not paint 'SHOOT ME' on it as well?  Anyways [/rant])

Back to the matter at hand. Do you think I ought to greeble anything on the gig surface, or call it 'armor' and move on? If you think there ought to be panels, greebles etc, please be specific.

And do you like the new hydraulics on the front dockpoint?

I can live with that
Though you will have to be careful when you put the dockpoint onto the pof so that it's flush with the furthest faces of the hexagon rather than the flat face of the circular bit. Looks good though.

Those polylimits are more guidelines than solid limits, but they look fairly close to what you should be aiming for. And yeah polys=tris

 Not sure what you mean with that 'flush' part. Please use simpler terms; English is not my first language and I often miss idioms.

And if I aim at ~9k tris, I still have ~4k tris to play with. Any particular requests (other than what you've pointed out so far)?

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Black Wolf]

A few flat areas aren't such a problem since detail can be added there with normal maps.

By flush I mean... Hmm, image I think. See attached.

It's not something you'll have to worry about until the pof stage though, from a modelling POV it's irrelevant.

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Enioch]

Ah. Right.

I know about normal maps -the point is, should I greeble anything there? pipes? panels?

And now I get the 'flush' part.

[Enioch]

Her new front airlock:

[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]

[Galemp]

That looks really intimidating.
Maybe you could reorient the X 45 degrees to make a + ? And/or make the corners of the hex a little softer.

[chief1983]

Yeah it does seem almost Shivan to some extent.  But definitely cool.

[Droid803]

It looks epic. Keep it an X It looks cooler that way.
The bottom looks great too.