[Corsair]

is that third one different from the second? I can't tell...

[DragonClaw]

The writing! The writing!  Its the actual words on the ring... not something he made up... thats the diff between the 2

[KillMeNow]

there is also a hint of fire in the reflection on the ring

[Corsair]

Originally posted by RKIF-DragonClaw
The writing! The writing!  Its the actual words on the ring... not something he made up... thats the diff between the 2

Ahhhhh...so that's what's different. Now that I look at it...you're right! :doh:

[mikhael]

Originally posted by venom2506
I kindda like Bombadil tho, he's probably the most powerful creature of middle earth, even if he doesn't look at all this way, but yeah, he could look kindda out of the place. I think he's a Maiar actually. There's no statement against that, and he's not powerful enough to be a Valar (and I think we know the names of all the Valars in the Silmarillion anyway). He's definitively not a wizard, and I don't see any other option. And I doubt he would be a one of a kind creature.

In one of his letters, which is available online, Tolkien expressly stated that Bombadil is nothing in the Ainulindule. Thus he cannot be Maiar or Valar nor Wizard.

If Bombadil is anything in the Silmarillion, there's only one thing he can be, and that is, of course, the only thing that existed before the Ainulindule. He would have to be Illuvatar, and I rather doubt that. Bombadil is something Other, something that is not of Middle Earth nor the entirety of its creation.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by KillMeNow
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in darkness bind them





Give in to the Dark Side!!

Whoa; super-cool.

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael


In one of his letters, which is available online, Tolkien expressly stated that Bombadil is nothing in the Ainulindule. Thus he cannot be Maiar or Valar nor Wizard.

If Bombadil is anything in the Silmarillion, there's only one thing he can be, and that is, of course, the only thing that existed before the Ainulindule. He would have to be Illuvatar, and I rather doubt that. Bombadil is something Other, something that is not of Middle Earth nor the entirety of its creation.

well, you're better informed than I am.
The Illuvatar? yeah lol, that's kindda doubtfull he wouldn't need to sing to stop a tree from killing someone I guess, yet he seems to have created everything with songs so... Anyway, I just don't imagine him as a strange happy fellow singing in the forest with his lady lol.

[Setekh]

That's it, I've had enough. Who is Tom Bombadil???

[Nico]

Originally posted by Setekh
That's it, I've had enough. Who is Tom Bombadil???

mmh, a weird guy in thefirst book, in a part scrapped in the movie, he saves the hobbits in the forest ( before they arrive at bree, where they meet with aragorn). He seems to have immense powers, that could even match those of Sauron himselves, and some guys in the council with Elrond even suggest to give him the ring so he takes care of it, but Gandalf stated that Bombadil wouldn't care and would even probably forget the ring in some place. He does nothing incredible ion the book anyway, he just saves the hobbits from a tree that was "swallowing" them or make them drown, just by singing.
There's also a book by Tolkien focused only on him, it's a lot of poems in fact, but it's kindda childish if you ask me.

[mikhael]

Tom Bombadil is a ridiculously powerful character in the The Fellowship of the Ring. When our hobbits are escaping from Farmer Maggot's field, they end up in the clutches of Old Man Willow, a grumpy carnivorous tree with a taste for young hobbit flesh.

Bombadil shows up and sings the tree into calm and saves the hobbits, and takes them back to his house. He introduces them to his wife, whose name I do not recall at this moment. Frodo lets Bombadil touch the Ring and, shockingly, nothing happens. This is a key point. Everyone, from Gandalf to Galadriel to Elrond feels the pull of the Ring, the desire to possess it and to dominate through Its power. To Bombadil, however, its just a silly ring. This is our best indication that Tom is something of a wholly different nature from the creatures of Middle Earth. To have gone unaffected by the Power of the Ring, having touched and held it, shows him to have greater power than the Maiar (Sauron is Maiar, as I recall) or the Wizards, both of which groups are just below the Valar in power.

To put it another way, Tom Bombadil would have been played by Samuel L. Jackson and he would have had a wallet that said 'Bad M***a F***a' on it.

Venom, the reason the book about Tom Bombadil was childish was that it was a children's book. Tolkien portrayed Bombadil as foolish and bumbling, carefree and silly. He is utterly childlike in himself. I suspect a little research will show that the book about Bombadil was written first (though not necessarily published first) and is the source of more borrowed characters, in the same way that Tolkien lifted elements in the Silmarillion to craft The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

[Nico]

actually, it's not true, as the Silmarilion wasn't exactly tolkien's work (well, tolkien it was, but Tolkien son actually). It's just a damn lot of notes written on a corner of a page, lose sheets of papers, letters to students, stuff like that, that his son gathered and rework to pu ti together. That's why it has some inconstancies or even incoherences, Tolkien was often contradicting himself in two texts, and according to his son, the silmarillion was quite some piece of work to put together.

Funny you think Bombadil is "ridiculously powerful" btw, when I read about those sci-fi species from your books, that can create universes and stuff. That is ridiculously powerful, not the fact that a guy can resist to the attraction of a magic ring. Actually, you want to know my theory of why he didn't feel anything? I think Bombadil is... her... warning, that will sound dumb, but anyway:
I think he's perfectly pure, not a single bad part in his heart, he's not greedy, not agressive, he's fair. The One Ring emphasizes on people's defaults to seize control over them, as did the lesser rings. The ring just can't use anything like that on Tom, and so the fellow is not threatened at all by it.

[mikhael]

In terms of the universe of Tolkien's creation, Bombadil is ridiculously powerful. Evil things in the world fear him; he is unaffected by an artifact that corrupts even beings only twice removed from Illuvatar himself.

I do like your reasoning, however.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by KillMeNow
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in darkness bind them





Give in to the Dark Side!!

WOW. This thing is A1-SUPAR





I Love this smiley

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael
an artifact that corrupts even beings only twice removed from Illuvatar himself.

what?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by venom2506


what?

In the ranking of beings from the Silmarillion: Illuvatar at the top, followed by Valar, followed by Maiar and the Istari (Maiar in human form as wizards). Even Gandalf feels the pull of the Ring, and he is Istari, only two steps away from Illuvatar.

One explanation suggests that Tom is bonded to his part of Ea, Middle Earth, and in that part, his power is supreme. He is at LEAST Maiar, and possible Valar, and thus has that sort of power, within his realm to resist the power of the Ring. Another suggestion is that Maiar, like Gandalf and Tom are tempted, they just do not succumb.

I think its time for me to stuff LOTR and The Silmarillion in my MP3 player again.

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael


In the ranking of beings from the Silmarillion: Illuvatar at the top, followed by Valar, followed by Maiar and the Istari (Maiar in human form as wizards). Even Gandalf feels the pull of the Ring, and he is Istari, only two steps away from Illuvatar.

One explanation suggests that Tom is bonded to his part of Ea, Middle Earth, and in that part, his power is supreme. He is at LEAST Maiar, and possible Valar, and thus has that sort of power, within his realm to resist the power of the Ring. Another suggestion is that Maiar, like Gandalf and Tom are tempted, they just do not succumb.

I think its time for me to stuff LOTR and The Silmarillion in my MP3 player again.

huh... can't you read a real book?
I don't think Istaris are maiars in human form... they would be really damn powerfull. Ok, Gandalf IS damn powerfull, but even Saruamn don't think the all the istaris are powerful enough to beat a single mayar (Sauron). There's a flaw there And does radagast sounds like he's a Mayar?
Also, that would imply that a Balrog is horribly powerfull (which they are, I admit, but they can't be as powerfull as a creation of illuvatar himslef). The one we see gives Gandalf quite some pbs, no?
To support my affirmation, i'll just quote (from memory) the fact that in the Silmarillion, it's stated noone knows who are the Istaris and where they came from originaly, not even the Eldars.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by venom2506


huh... can't you read a real book?
I don't think Istaris are maiars in human form... they would be really damn powerfull. Ok, Gandalf IS damn powerfull, but even Saruamn don't think the all the istaris are powerful enough to beat a single mayar (Sauron). There's a flaw there And does radagast sounds like he's a Mayar?
Also, that would imply that a Balrog is horribly powerfull (which they are, I admit, but they can't be as powerfull as a creation of illuvatar himslef). The one we see gives Gandalf quite some pbs, no?
To support my affirmation, i'll just quote (from memory) the fact that in the Silmarillion, it's stated noone knows who are the Istaris and where they came from originaly, not even the Eldars.

"can't you read a real book?" Yes, I can. On the other hand, I can also LISTEN to a book while I drive. I cannot read a book while I drive. I spend three hours a day driving back and forth from work. Since I don't listen to music, this is a perfect time to listen to audiobooks. I only listen to unabridged audiobooks. I do not like missing a single word.

Now, to the question at hand: I think you are mistaken. I believe the Silmarillion states that the Istari ARE Maiar. What else could they be? They are not men, and yet they come from Illuvatar's realm. If the Istari are Valar, they could destroy Sauron rather casually. Certainly, none of the Valar ever had trouble with the Maiar. That leaves either Maiar, or the younger races. The Istari are certainly not elves nor dwarves nor men. That leaves only the Maiar, who obviously vary in power. The Silmarillion explicitly declares Balrogs to be Maiar related to fire. Sauron dominated the Balrogs and other beastly Maiar long before his creation of the One Ring. If Balrogs (many Maiar) could be dominated by Sauron (a lone Maiar), I do not think it impossible that Radaghast could be Maiar as well.

I think you will find passing mention in the Silmarillion, that the Istari have provenances of power. I believe that in either that volume or in the Lord of the Rings itself, Radaghast's power is implied to deal with animals.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by mikhael
In the ranking of beings from the Silmarillion: Illuvatar at the top, followed by Valar, followed by Maiar and the Istari (Maiar in human form as wizards).

After the answers come more questions. Would you mind explaining this hierarchy to me?

[Nico]

Originally posted by Setekh


After the answers come more questions. Would you mind explaining this hierarchy to me?

bah, just different ranks of gods. I don't have the silmarillion at my apartment, so I don't remember exactly for yhr Mayar, but Illuvatar is the god who  created everything, the valar are his sons and the maiar, don't remember. lesser gods probably.
they create and destroy things with songs, that's why I think Bombadil is somehow linked with them.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by venom2506
bah, just different ranks of gods. I don't have the silmarillion at my apartment, so I don't remember exactly for yhr Mayar, but Illuvatar is the god who  created everything, the valar are his sons and the maiar, don't remember. lesser gods probably.
they create and destroy things with songs, that's why I think Bombadil is somehow linked with them.

Ahhh, I see. Yeah, that would make sense then. Darn, LotR is like B5... the more you find out, the more you want to find out, and now I know the entire B5 story arc, and I've even done quite a bit of thinking about it