[AlphaOne]

Well the whitestar fleet was the most advanced fleet of ships aside from the Vorlons and the Shadows. But one they left the Minbari had the means baddest fleet in existence . Decades ahead of its competition. And since the only true competition could come from the humans.......!

even so the humans i remember developed some new class of dreadnoughts that as i remember were consider on par with the most powerfull warships the minbari had to offer. Not really equal but powerfull enough as to make a battle between 2 such ships a matter of skill.


Anyway what i was originally stating was the idea of a single ship. I mean sure it would be nice to have several ships together. But im actually talking about something a bit more powerfull. A single warship that would do the job of 3 or 4 whitestars so to speak in the Fs universe .


However the idea of a wolf pack is rather interesting but what would such a ship class be ? surely it has to be about the size or perhaps a bit bigger then a cruiser. But armed more like a corvette have massive speed and while its not supposed to have the armor of a corvette it should have reasonable amour so as not to be too easily taken out . I say this because in FS universe beams dont miss. Also if you recall the Whitestar ships had some sort of organic or something armor that allowed the ship to adjust to the enemy fire and reduce the damage it took from the said fire over time in the end negating it all together. that is assuming it actually managed to survive that long which almost never happened.

[Commander Zane]

That "Dreadnought" is the Warlock Advanced Destroyer.

[AlphaOne]

Yeah but the doctor ..err..... i forgot his name refers to it as a dreadnought in one of the Episode of B5 . It has some sort of Shadow based organic armour tech. some sort of vorlon/minbari inspired canons gravimetric dive or something like that . so it was fast as hell tough to crack much more so then perhaps even the whitestars perhaps and massive firepower to boot. Oh yeah and they cost an arm and a leg an another arm and a leg. Since i clearely remember then stating that " only a had full of them have yet to be built so it must be some one reall important for them to have one of these as escort" give or take a few words

So what's your take?

Whitestar type ships or Warlock type ships of perhaps Victory class .

[Commander Zane]

Oh if they're the Minbari armed ships with Gravimetric drives then it's the Victory Heavy Destroyer.

[AlphaOne]

The Warlock has the same gravitic (not gravimetric sorry for the miss use of the word in the first place) as the Victory class. Well not exactly the same but it does have a gravitic engine actualy 2 of them !

[Commander Zane]

But you also said Minbari style weapons, which the Victory is loaded with, compared to the Warlock having the same typical loadout as a Nova / Omega but with AEGIS beam cannons.

[AlphaOne]

Well depending on here you look the Omegas have gone through several refits ! In fact i've read somewhere on the web that calculated in tech data alone in close range an Omega class destroyer the latest refit variant is actually more powerfull then even the Sharlin wacruiser of the minbari. I dont know how true that may be but even so....! The biggest asset of the Warlock are its shadow based nano-organic armor sadwitched between the same sort of cristaline armor as the Victory class only inferior. Even so the shadow armour means its more then a match to well just about anithing out there !


An to get back on track while i was referring to the same sort of weapons as the Whitestar i was referring in the FS universe ! That would mean you would have to have a ship the size of cruiser with the armour o a Lilith yet the Speed of the Iceni yet armed with at least 1 BVas for more rapid fire or rather a variant of it . Perhaps along the lines of the MGreen ive seen around paired ones. sensors so advanced so as to pick up on any enemy vessels in a target area ! Also such a ship woul have to have a very advanced subspace drive as to allow it to jump whenever needed. or rather in rapid succession 2 jump one after the other.

Also it must have some decent AAAF capabilaties but not too many. Also can you imagien the costs of such a ship. Man you could probably build a frigate and some spare fighter wings for the price of just one of these monsters.

but then again it all depends on what you deem worth spending ! I you believe that having a few wings of such warships out there hunting for enemy warships keeping them at bay reducing the enemy fleet size a few times a day worth while then you would build them. that would spare you a lot of trouble later so as you will not have to commit large scale forces to combat the same threat that your precious mind bogling expensive ships eliminated with not too much effort.

[TrashMan]

A REALLY good ships aways sacrifices something.

Most notably, time and $$$ to build, complexity to mantain.

on top of that in order to maximze one aspect you have to make sacfiices to another.

Yeah, I do think hunter-killer ships are possible, but would probably be more ...restrained..more limited (as opposed to uber-ship some seem to propose).
Wolf pack analogy is a great one. It fits.

[kalnaren]

However the idea of a wolf pack is rather interesting but what would such a ship class be ? surely it has to be about the size or perhaps a bit bigger then a cruiser. But armed more like a corvette have massive speed and while its not supposed to have the armor of a corvette it should have reasonable amour so as not to be too easily taken out . I say this because in FS universe beams dont miss.

I think a wolfpack-like ship could be about the size of a cruiser. The Fenris is fast and lightly armoured, but it's also more than 40 years old. A completely modern version would probably be better. A ship the size of a corvette would be able to mount the needed equipment, but it would be expensive to build and maintain compared to it's utility. The money would be better spent building a normal corvette.

I think to define what kind of ship you would need to define the target. Hunter-Killer is a very specialised role, and the specs of the H/K would change depending on what it was designed to hunt. For example, if a ship was designed to attack logistical targets (which are usually slow or stationary) than it wouldn't need to be fast or that heavily armed, just strong enough to take a shot from any escorts that happen to be within range when it jumps in. On the other hand if it is designed to hunt cruisers it's requirements change yet again.

Perhaps a new type of configurable, modular warship? Expensive to design but can be reconfigured to different mission specs?

[Charismatic]

A REALLY good ships aways sacrifices something.
on top of that in order to maximze one aspect you have to make sacfiices to another.

Is that necessarily true?

[Polpolion]

A REALLY good ships aways sacrifices something.

If by good, you mean game-play balanced.

[eliex]

A REALLY good ships aways sacrifices something.

If by good, you mean game-play balanced.

As in the Lilith:
-Reasonably good speed
-Primary beam 2 stages above what it should have
-Extraordinarily tough armour.
A really overpowered ship?

Send in a few fighters.
Now if it wasn't gameplay balanced, the Lilith might have a MRed (and being Shivan is equal to a GTVA B-class beam) and have 3 SAAA. 

[Snail]

IMO the Lilith was pretty awesome in both FS1 and FS2.

In fact, I think the Lilith is one of the only ships whose reputation was actually even more fearsome in FS2 than in FS1. In FS1 when I saw a Lilith I thought "Oh dear, this is going to take ages without bombs," while in FS2 it was like "KILL THAT F*CKING BEAM CANNON!!!"

More or less all of the ships that got transferred from FS1 to FS2 lost their aura of coolness (the Hercules being an extreme example).

[TrashMan]

A REALLY good ships aways sacrifices something.
on top of that in order to maximze one aspect you have to make sacfiices to another.

Is that necessarily true?

Yes. You can't simply increase the speed of the ships without sacrificing something else.

You want bigger engines? Ups..mass just got increased too, tough luck. Not really working.
Want more efficient engines? Pay up bud, those things cost a fortune and are a b*** to mantain!
No better engines? Well, then get rid of some mass. Less guns or less armor, your choice.

In most cases, no amount of time and $$$ thrown will help you get a better ship without sacrificing something. Sometimes there are just no better components to be had. And as always, military has a budget too.

[AlphaOne]

I hate to admit it but the shivans got it almost perfect with the Lilith. I mean that ship could threaten even a destroyer .

I've seen ppl here talking about costs of a powerfull H/K warship. The name in itself implies that it is expensive. This ship is designed to take on enemy warship regardless of its class and win.

Of course depending on the actual size of such a ship and its capabilaties different tactic would have to be used.

For example if we are refering to something along the lines of a cruiser or slightly larger wolf pack tactics need to be employed. Grouping several of them toghether so as to be able to take on even a Sath if needed. Of course you would need to group up to 2 wings of such ships in order to make fast short work of a Sath but pretty much everithing else would not need more then 1 wing.

Now if we are talking about something along the size of a Iceni things change a bit as such a ship would be able to mount even more firepower then the said frigate class. And it would be even more advanced as it needs to be self sufficinet for fairly long periods of time and even house 2 or 3 wings of ships .

Such a ship would be very expensive if you include powerfull sensors electronic warfare tech and some stealth features to it. This coupled with the more advanced subspace drives would mean that such a ship would be as powerfull if not more powerfull , in various situations and conditions , then a full blown destroyer. Also it would cost just as much i suppose. However one must look at the bigger picture before throwing such an expensive ship to the garbage.

The GTVA has failed time and time again when it comes to head on full blown engagements with the shivans.

Why ? Its simple the Shivans have more ships and with more powerfull beams. even if they did not have more ships the more powerfull weapons means that by the time a ship manages to react to an incoming shivan warship it is already too late. So why not invest in a ship that can take the battle to the shivans and even win.


Granted it uses hit and run tactics but who cares as long as it gets the job done. even if you loose one such ship for every 3 enemy cap ship destroyed you would still be on top. Just look at how many warships the GTVA lost attempting to take out one shivan destroyer.

Sure you might say well then why not use bombers?

Because bombers can be taken out much fater then a warship and bombs can run out beam can not.

Also you were there to take out the enemy so it doesnt really count now does it

[Dilmah G]

it's not that the Shivans have more powerful beams, they are mounted in an offensive fashion on the ship. While GTVA ships rarely have beams mounted offensively, usually on the broadside, and broadside positioning can take some time, especially to get the majority of the broadside beams to bear.

[General Battuta]

it's not that the Shivans have more powerful beams, they are mounted in an offensive fashion on the ship. While GTVA ships rarely have beams mounted offensively, usually on the broadside, and broadside positioning can take some time, especially to get the majority of the broadside beams to bear.

Well, also, their beams actually are a lot more powerful.

[Dilmah G]

it's not that the Shivans have more powerful beams, they are mounted in an offensive fashion on the ship. While GTVA ships rarely have beams mounted offensively, usually on the broadside, and broadside positioning can take some time, especially to get the majority of the broadside beams to bear.

Well, also, their beams actually are a lot more powerful.

While that is true tablewise, the GTVA can win an engagement with a Shivan Fleet if

A) Their beams were positioned in a manner which would allow them to mount a good offense and neutralise the majority of targets before warranting the need of a defense.

B) Fighters and Bombers were deployed to disarm/destroy the largest threats in the Shivan fleet before the GTVA Fleet was in position to engage.

C) Fighters were standing by to counter a similar Shivan attempt.

[General Battuta]

Yep, but you could say the same for the Shivans.

[Dilmah G]

Yep, but you could say the same for the Shivans.

The Shivans have, and greatly exploit point A. And ultimately in terms of B and C, its really the capships who are going to decide the fate of the engagement.