Author Topic: Epicurus Quote  (Read 53366 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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And equal (maybe a little less) have believed what I do and in the end, it has not fallen into dust and half-remembered myths.

Well, except for all the various versions of Christianity that have.

It's a powerful myth structure in a historiographic sense, certainly, but it has no more claim to validity than the Egyptian or Norse or Greek pantheons did.

 

Offline Galemp

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a-thee-ist (n): 1) someone who denies the existence of gods.

Fixed that for you.

It's nothing personal, y'see?
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Offline Scotty

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 :confused:  What did you fix?

EDIT:  Did you add an s to God(s)?

 

Offline Galemp

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And lowercased it. They're important distinctions.

See? It's not your specific god that's being denied, it's all of them, from Allah to Zoroaster. So don't take it personally if we're not 'saved' as there's a couple hundred other religions that haven't 'saved' us either.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 11:29:16 pm by Galemp »
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Offline redsniper

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Offline iamzack

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Atheism can mean two things, actually:

1. the doctrine or belief that there are no gods
2. disbelief in the existence of gods

Which I don't like. They're different. Believing that there are no gods is the same to me as believing there are. It makes much mroe sense to just not believe in gods because you don't think they exist.

But maybe it's just semantics.
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Offline Wobble73

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Quote
it's like locking a puppy in a room all day and then punishing it for peeing on the carpet

So if a puppy pees on the carpet you just let it do it?  Punishing it is how it learns.  Granted, that's not a perfect analogy, but it works for now.


No, I wouldn't punish the puppy, as it's not the puppy's fault, it would be my fault for locking it in the room all day. You can't blame an animal for following nature. They know no better, as did Adam and Eve, (if there were such people!)
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Offline karajorma

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In fact most dog trainers specifically tell you not to punish dogs for peeing on the carpet. Firstly the dog didn't know it was wrong. Secondly if your dog pees on the carpet before being trained not to it's your fault, not the puppy's. Dogs don't spontaneously learn to go outside. You have to take them outside, encourage/reward them when they do pee outside and gradually teach them that outside is acceptable while inside is not.

It's called taking responsibility. The Adam and Eve story is a massive case of God not taking responsibility for the mess he allowed to happen. It's exactly like the incompetent/abusive dog owner rubbing the dogs nose in it thinking that this teaches them something.

Besides, **** free will. If God is omnipotent he knew damn well that Satan was busy tempting Adam and Eve yet he did nothing. That is the same as watching a car pull up next to your five year old and letting the driver offer them sweets safe in the knowledge that you told your kids not to take sweets from strangers and if they get abducted it was their fault. No responsible parent would ever do that. Any sensible parent would chase off the car, call the police and then explain to the kids again why they can't talk to strangers.

Without knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve were as innocent and naive as children. To expect them to understand that they had to obey God's orders with no more concept of right and wrong than a child was unreasonable. To apply a punishment that applied beyond them is ridiculous. It's like punishing the next litter of puppies even before any of them pees.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 09:32:18 am by karajorma »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Anyone can see that.  Look at the name of the tree.  The tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  The point is that they were told not to, and deliberately disobeyed him.

And again, I say unto thee: "But they literally had no concept that disobeying was wrong."

Kara lays it out better than I am inclined to above.
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Offline S-99

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This totally makes one wonder about the predictability of the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden. Had adam and eve not eaten from it, eventually one of their future offspring would. It really seems that tree being there and humans eating from it was meant to happen.
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Offline redsniper

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I thought the tree and fruit and such was just a metaphor for us getting smart, then using our smartness to invent clubs and swords and guns and nukes.
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Offline TrashMan

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The Old Testamanet is mostly metaphores and stuff.


Meh. God by definition defies logic.
I mean, to describe Him we use the word omnipotence. That word in itself is illogical (remember the old "create a stone you yourself cannot lift" thing), so that should clearly point the futility of such excercises.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 01:52:48 pm by TrashMan »
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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The universe is omnipotent; it can do anything that is possible to happen in universe. Now, whether or not it does this consciously or not is the question, isn't it?
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Offline karajorma

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The Old Testamanet is mostly metaphores and stuff.

And Adam and Eve is a metaphor for what then? What is Original Sin a metaphor for?
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Offline Ghostavo

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I think god is a metaphor.
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Offline Snail

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I think god is a metaphor.
Metaphor phor what?

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Dunno.

Maybe the bible is trying to say that authority figures are self-centered dicks who only want people worshiping them.
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Offline Mobius

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According to the new way to interpret the Bible the whole Adam and Eve affair is to be considered a metaphor.

No doubt a few hundred years ago thing were completely different - and this bugs me.
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Offline Polpolion

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Meh. God by definition defies illogic.

That's not what you said before.

 

Offline TrashMan

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The universe is omnipotent; it can do anything that is possible to happen in universe.

 :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Isn't it still constrained by what is possible to happen in the universe? True omnipotence means that there are NO limits or constraints whatsoever.
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