Author Topic: "British works for British workers!" (Read 4685 times)

Mobius · **on:** February 01, 2009, 07:30:53 am

I never create threads of this kind mailny because the vast majority of the people who browse these boards don't live here and/or wouldn't care that much about them. This time, however, I found something plenties of HLPers could comment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7860593.stm

I understand the workers' point of view, but those strikes passed well beyond the limit. They're resulting, IMO, in some sort of jingoism mk II. Looks like someone is refusing to realize that the UK is not the only country facing recession and, well, the fact that there are clear rules in the EU for workers.

Workers should be more competitive to attract more attention. Simply complaining at more convenient choices leads to nothing, living in a country and deserve to get a specific assignment are two separate things.

Snail · **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:11:27 am

Put it this way, if you have a job and some guy from another country comes and takes your job you wouldn't be happy. These guys are just acting preemptively I guess. I'm not saying their actions are justified, it's just I understand their point of view.

karajorma · **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:56:17 am

It's pretty stupid really. There's a shortage of skilled workers. A company wants 300 people. They can't find them in the UK. They hire from abroad. Other companies sack a bunch of workers. What the **** are they supposed to do?

Sack all the foreigners they hired (and no doubt go down the tubes themselves when they get sued to oblivion for breach of contract) or carry out the contract they agreed to carry out. If these people want to complain they need to complain at the company that originally sacked them.

Now if companies are bringing in foreigners from the EU to work more cheaply than UK workers that's another matter. But that's easily fixed. Simply allow the foreign workers to sue the company for discrimination. More work for the lawyers and courts and the companies that do that will soon stop.

Mobius · **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2009, 10:43:31 am

I agree, if they want an assignment they need to deserve it. If that company chose Italian workers there must be a good reason...moving the workers to the UK is not priceless and if someone decided to do it then it must be worth the effort.

Also, that article wasn't that clear about those Italian workers. They're from Siracusa, in Sicily(South Italy), and the south is by definition the most poor part of Italy. I live in the south and although I have a supposedly respectable life I know how hard the situation is for many, many people.

In order words, those workers would be in much worse conditions compared to their British counterparts.

Janos · **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2009, 11:50:12 am

Oh so middle class wants all the fruits of globalization but don't want to pay for it?

"Well of course I can migrate to USA for higher income jobs and of course I will travel to cheap countries to act like a pig and of course I want to buy cheap goods from 3rd world but people coming here to seek better lifestyle? **** THEM" *is unemployed*

Yeah, certainly forcing companies to hire unqualified british workers over more qualified foreign nationals is excellent bussiness, right? You wouldn't scream bloody murder if someone decided to give your job to another guy just because you are british and he was not? No sire no, you wouldn't hahah who am I kidding

Well if this goes to force then the brits don't probably have any kind of problem of being disfavoured in EU, i mean law goes both ways, right.

Idiots

edit: Well we could do away with the UK Rebate as well!

Mobius · **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2009, 12:08:26 pm

On a side note, I don't think the fact that those works come from another country of the EU is ethically relevant. Their provenience is relevant under a bureaucratic point of view, but nothing more. They may be Italians, Russians, Japanese, Arabians, etc. etc. The way to treat them should be the same, in any case.

Roanoke · **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2009, 12:27:07 pm

I think the Dail Mail style angst was triggered more by the company (Italian, I think ?) refusing point-blank to employ British people. Though I can't really see how they would turn Brits away without being accused of discrimination same as any other company refusing to employ foreigners.

Admiral_Stones · **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:48:14 pm

Quote from: Snail on February 01, 2009, 08:11:27 am

Put it this way, if you have a job and some guy from another country comes and takes your job you wouldn't be happy. These guys are just acting preemptively I guess. I'm not saying their actions are justified, it's just I understand their point of view.

That happens quite

in Switzerland with german Doctors and such. But what can I say?
It's the bloody market. If somebody wants less money for it and is equally qualified - tough luck for the guy who absolutely wants more money for it.

Snail · **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:49:35 pm

Hey look another misspelling smiley!

I wonder what other ones there are...

,

...?

FUBAR-BDHR · **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:56:17 pm

This stuff goes on all the time in the US. Big corporations apply for guest worker visas to get skilled employees they claim aren't available in the US. Then they make their current employees train the ones brought in to take their jobs and terminate them. A lot of it is not about the skill of the workers it's about the bottom line and how cheap they can get someone to do the same job for.

karajorma · **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2009, 06:32:47 pm

Quote from: FUBAR-BDHR on February 01, 2009, 02:56:17 pm

Then they make their current employees train the ones brought in to take their jobs and terminate them.

Train them to do the job badly then.

FUBAR-BDHR · **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2009, 06:36:52 pm

Then the company just outright fires you and you don't get unemployment benefits.

karajorma · **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2009, 10:14:24 am

Nah. You just don't make it obvious that you trained them badly.

peterv · **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2009, 09:13:09 am

Quote from: Janos on February 01, 2009, 11:50:12 am

Oh so middle class wants all the fruits of globalization but don't want to pay for it?

Here is a bit of globalization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOtVg05JLPc

IPAndrews · **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2009, 10:19:28 am

I don't have much problem with "foreigners" working here. I do though have a problem with them being paid less than their UK counterparts. It drags down everyone's wages. Though I guess that's what minimum wage legislation is supposed to prevent.

karajorma · **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2009, 10:23:03 am

As I said, suing for discrimination would solve that problem.

Instead of protesting they should just bring a class action suit.

Mobius · **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2009, 11:33:42 am

What they shouldn't do is summoning Gordon Brown...

Janos · **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2009, 12:27:20 pm

Quote from: Mobius on February 01, 2009, 12:08:26 pm

On a side note, I don't think the fact that those works come from another country of the EU is ethically relevant. Their provenience is relevant under a bureaucratic point of view, but nothing more. They may be Italians, Russians, Japanese, Arabians, etc. etc. The way to treat them should be the same, in any case.

Well certainly, but then one might as well waive all the rights that stem from being a EU member.

From ethical point of view yes, all workers should be equal. But the reverse is not British jobs for british people, it's jobs for EU citizens. If Britain really wants to keep foreigners out, they should kiss their share of EU goodbye.

Flipside · **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:40:22 pm

Though, it should be noted in passing that many European countries do, in fact, give preference to nationals first, the EU Members, then non-EU Members. It's not written down anywhere, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, nor a good one, but it just is.

Janos · **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:44:05 pm

Quote from: Flipside on February 03, 2009, 02:40:22 pm

Though, it should be noted in passing that many European countries do, in fact, give preference to nationals first, the EU Members, then non-EU Members. It's not written down anywhere, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, nor a good one, but it just is.

well **** them as well!

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