[blackhole]

Naw this topic is not my only reason for registering, I do enjoy Freespace and space sims in general. I do like a good debate, I don't take it personally.

I am not good at debating, I'm just good at yelling very loudly, which is why I will remove myself from this conversation.

assholeish atheism is just as annoying, blackhole.

No I'm just an asshole in general, like you

[Daniel P]

assholeish atheism is just as annoying, blackhole.

We got Religious Zealots and Atheism Zealots.

To me they are ZEALOTS. 

That why I don't like zealots. 

[iamzack]

I get on Turambar about it all the time.

Maybe it's just because I'm secretly a bit religious.

[Turambar]

I get on Turambar about it all the time.

Maybe it's just because I'm secretly a bit religious.

you just like to believe in hell because it gives you a good reason to not kill yourself.

cause me being all sad and lonely isn't a good enough reason 

[iamzack]

OMG. You have an IM window with me open.

</hypocrisy>

[Coolhand1980]

I am not a religious Zealot by any means, in fact i'm a fairly rational, open-minded person who likes to hear other people's opinion's even if they don't jive with mine. How can we learn anything of the pre-universe when we can't even see but a few hundred light years in our universe?

[iamzack]

Actually, I think the observable universe is like 13.8 billion light years, ain't it?

[Turambar]

Everything we currently see is moving away from a single point.

what does that suggest to you?

[Daniel P]

Not to be rude these type of topics get flamed the most.

[General Battuta]

Everything we currently see is moving away from a single point.

what does that suggest to you?

Wait, wait, what?

Everything is moving away from everything else. Because space is expanding.

There's no single point that everything is hurtling away from, I believe.

However, that's still powerful evidence for the Big Bang (which is the best explanation we have, and a darn good one.)

[Coolhand1980]

If everything is so many light years away, how do we know that everything is moving away, is it that rapid of a movement that we can notice?

[iamzack]

As long as people can ask questions and answer questions and not get all self-righteous and snobby (see coolhand's first post) threads like this are great fun. Even if they get heated.

[Daniel P]

If everything is so many light years away, how do we know that everything is moving away, is it that rapid of a movement?

I thought Andromeda Galaxy is going to collide with the milkyway in 2 billion years. 

But Everything else, Expanding away.

[Coolhand1980]

Is the conclusion that everything is moving away based on observational differences that humans have detected in recorded history or what?

[iamzack]

I think like near to all the stuff we know about space is based on mathy physics more than looking up and watching stuff happen. Like knowing how big a planet orbiting a star that's retardedly far away is.

[The E]

If everything is so many light years away, how do we know that everything is moving away, is it that rapid of a movement that we can notice?

In Astronomy, there is this thing called redshift. Basically the Doppler-effect for light. Short Explanation: If something is moving away from you, its emission spectra seems to be shifted towards the red end of visible light (lower frequency). Since suns of a given size tend to have similar emission spectra, you can compare those. The redder they seem, the faster they move away from you. (Longer explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift)

I think like near to all the stuff we know about space is based on mathy physics more than looking up and watching stuff happen. Like knowing how big a planet orbiting a star that's retardedly far away is.

Actually, most of the stuff we know about the universe were deducted by first looking up, then doing the math to explain what was observed. Don't confuse Astrophysics with particle physics, while they may overlap, they are somewhat different.

[iamzack]

Well, yeah, I know that. But I mean, we look up and see the stars and planets move, and then it took mathy weirdness to know that stuff ain't orbiting us.. right?

[Flipside]

Well, there were some weird things that gave it away, the Moon, for example obviously went round us, but scientists noticed that planets sometimes went backwards, known as retrograding, and they ended up realising that this was because they weren't going round us, but we were all going round something else, and that the Earth was going round its own axis. From there it was a pretty short step to figuring out that the Sun didn't rise and set, it just went in and out of view from a particular hemisphere

[The E]

Well, yeah, I know that. But I mean, we look up and see the stars and planets move, and then it took mathy weirdness to know that stuff ain't orbiting us.. right?

You don't necessarily need math for that, just logic. But the math helps to make predictions, which in turn help proving your theories.

Well, there were some weird things that gave it away, the Moon, for example obviously went round us, but scientists noticed that planets sometimes went backwards, known as retrograding, and they ended up realising that this was because they weren't going round us, but we were all going round something else.

Although some of the models that the geocentric people made to explain what was happening were truly stunning in their Rube-Goldbergness...

[Flipside]

Indeed, those models may have served no scientific purpose, but they are still massive fun to watch