Author Topic: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)  (Read 13500 times)

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
No, but it does mean that Tigh's child is in a way Ellen's grandchild.  So that means Tigh is both its father and grandfather.  Remember, the Final Five were responsible for the creation of the skinjobs in the first place.  Do we even know if the child is male or female yet for that matter?

But I'm really looking forwards to what Tyrol and Boomer do, especially since Tyrol had gotten involved with Kailey(sp?) and started raising a child.

Cally. And it was a child that ended up not even being his. The more interesting relationship thing, to me, is how the Final Five treat each other with the new knowledge of their past relationships. For example, Tyrol and Tory used to be together...how do they move forward now that they know that?

 
Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Let me see if I get this straight...

The original 12 tribes created humanoid AI. There was some sort of conflict, and this AI left Kobol, becoming the 13th tribe. They eventually settled on Earth, where they flourish in their new society, able to reproduce like humans. Then something happened, they had their own holocaust, and were wiped out, except for 5 that foresaw the end coming. These 5 backtracked to the 12 colonies, to try and warn the humans, except they were too late. So the made a deal with the Centurions: human-form bodies and resurrection technology in exchange for peace. Problem was, the Ones, John, didn't like the idea of being human and having peace. So they tricked the 5, wiped their memories, and tossed them into the 12 colonies. The rest is history.

The whole thing is both very revealing, and extremely confusing. All in all though, I like how Moore, Eick, and the writers have pieced it all together. It feels right, and makes sense. Looking forward to getting more information though...the whole thing is still a bit hazy, with too many gaps.


Speaking of gaps, poor Galactica! She's tearing apart at the seams. I guess even ships can be imperfect, no matter how heroic they seem. I liked Tyrol's quip about the cost cutting during her construction; really brings to mind the old saw about remembering that your gun was made by the lowest bidder. And now she's gonna be part Cylon...that should be interesting.

Excitement and action wise, this episode was lacking. But it did a good job of progressing the story, and tying together some of the hanging threads we've had. So for those of us that like character and story development just as much as bang bang action scenes, I think it was a good episode.


P.S. - Here's predicting that one of the Daniels escaped, and was Kara's father.

The holocaust on Earth was the skinjobs deciding to make Centurions. The Centurions killed Earth skinjobs, but the 5 predicted this war and left to warn the rest of the colonies not to build centurions. But the other colonies already built centurions.
Just don't give away the homeworld...

 
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
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[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

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[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
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[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Anf23

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
i know this isn't directly linked to this episode but i couldn't think where else to ask without creating a new topic, but whatever happened to Bulldog, the stealthstar pilot from Hero? it seems hes totally drifted off and with the final episodes looming i cant see him making an appearance since there are no mysteries left regarding the final five

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
i know this isn't directly linked to this episode but i couldn't think where else to ask without creating a new topic, but whatever happened to Bulldog, the stealthstar pilot from Hero? it seems hes totally drifted off and with the final episodes looming i cant see him making an appearance since there are no mysteries left regarding the final five

Season 3 had a number of one-shot, episodic stories that haven't really been important to the greater arc.

The writers have admitted they view that as a bit of a mistake.

 

Offline Ace

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.html

Especially this tidbit:
Quote
Jane: The Final Five were polytheists until they met the Centurions, who were monotheists.

That seems rather interesting, since it seemed that the Temple of Hopes was supposed to be dedicated to a monotheistic god and its priests.
Ace
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Offline TESLA

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Let me see if I get this straight...

The original 12 tribes created humanoid AI. There was some sort of conflict, and this AI left Kobol, becoming the 13th tribe. They eventually settled on Earth, where they flourish in their new society, able to reproduce like humans. Then something happened, they had their own holocaust, and were wiped out, except for 5 that foresaw the end coming. These 5 backtracked to the 12 colonies, to try and warn the humans, except they were too late. So the made a deal with the Centurions: human-form bodies and resurrection technology in exchange for peace. Problem was, the Ones, John, didn't like the idea of being human and having peace. So they tricked the 5, wiped their memories, and tossed them into the 12 colonies. The rest is history.

The whole thing is both very revealing, and extremely confusing. All in all though, I like how Moore, Eick, and the writers have pieced it all together. It feels right, and makes sense. Looking forward to getting more information though...the whole thing is still a bit hazy, with too many gaps.


Speaking of gaps, poor Galactica! She's tearing apart at the seams. I guess even ships can be imperfect, no matter how heroic they seem. I liked Tyrol's quip about the cost cutting during her construction; really brings to mind the old saw about remembering that your gun was made by the lowest bidder. And now she's gonna be part Cylon...that should be interesting.

Excitement and action wise, this episode was lacking. But it did a good job of progressing the story, and tying together some of the hanging threads we've had. So for those of us that like character and story development just as much as bang bang action scenes, I think it was a good episode.


P.S. - Here's predicting that one of the Daniels escaped, and was Kara's father.

The holocaust on Earth was the skinjobs deciding to make Centurions. The Centurions killed Earth skinjobs, but the 5 predicted this war and left to warn the rest of the colonies not to build centurions. But the other colonies already built centurions.

Why is that confusing??? It is perfectly clear  ;)  :drevil:

Yeah, honestly i know what you mean, its an episode you wanna watch couple of times to make sure you got it right

Frak it. Dont like Gaps. Gaps should be flushed out the airlock with plot loopholes, bad acting, and Annoying kids on sci fi shows
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Offline Snagger

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
We know the 5 travelled back to the 12 Colonies at "relatavistic speeds", with no FTL, to warn the humans not to build a nw race of Cylons, having themselves come to a sticky end and escaped just in time by using newly re-discovered resurrection, but were too late.


So, the Humans once created the Cylons on Kobol, it lead to war and a split.  This was then repeated both on the 12 Colonies and the old Cylons' Earth.  That makes the current Human/Cylon war the fourth.


We know that the 5 original Earth Cylons managed to bring about the 12 Colonies' armistice by giving the 12Col Centurions resurrection and the humanoid boidies they were already working towards themselves.  The first of these new breeds was John (Cavil), who has deep seated instability and hates the limitations of an organic body.  He turned on his creators, the Earth 5, and killed them, putting their resurrected bodies amongst the humans as a punishment and revenge.  John also killed the Number 7, Daniel, though the explaination of why is not yet clear.

Having just watched the Caprica pilot trailer, I find it interesting that one of the main characters is called Daniel.  I think it's Graystone, the creator of the robot copy of Joe Adama's daughter and Bill Adama's sister.  My guess is that one or more of the  Daniels survived.  How this will fit though, seems difficult, as that Caprica Daniel was set prior to the war, and the information from Ellen suggests they arrived after the start of the war.  If Tigh's memories of the Cylon War, including the Brinnock, are real, then maybe the Earth 5 arrived before the war with their 8 new models, and gave these models to the 12Col centurions as a peace offering?  An what seems like Lucy Lawless in the last voice-over in the trailer... could this robot sister of Bill's become Number 3?

As for the Galactica itself, it seems odd that the structural damage is a surprise to the crew - surely the engineering teams would have been conducting regular inspections, given her age, her participation in two wars, four years on the run, some massive nuclear poundings and a freefall through atmosphere?  I can't see any reason she should change in appearance at all for structural repairs - they'd just cut away and replace the bad steel pillars and plate the bulkheads.  The only thing likley to chage her lines at all is the Cylon FTL system, but that might just consist of tweaks and modifications to the existing set, ather than and engine compartment rebuild.  The organic compund to repair the steel microfractures could change the looks a little, I suppose - it could "eat" the paint and scorch marks' soot, cleaning the ship to an etched metal finish similar to the Raiders, Basestars and season 1 Centurions.  If it's meant to be a sentient compound (hive mind, nanobots or whatever other analogy you like), perhaps it'll be a Trek-like end-of-episode reset with an as-new ship at the end of it.  I think they'll resist that option, though, and just have it repair the microfactures only - if you have it sealing all the big cracks, it'll get silly; how would id differentiate between a crack in a beam and the joint between a door and its frame, or other moving parts?

 

Offline Meleardil

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
John also killed the Number 7, Daniel, though the explanation of why is not yet clear.

It was explained. Ellen said that Daniel was an artist, and he was very close to her hearth. John felt that she was playing favorites. So, driven by the most pitiful human emotions, jealousy and rage, he killed the Daniel models.
"I think it is impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves."
Speaker for the Dead

 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
John also killed the Number 7, Daniel, though the explanation of why is not yet clear.

It was explained. Ellen said that Daniel was an artist, and he was very close to her hearth. John felt that she was playing favorites. So, driven by the most pitiful human emotions, jealousy and rage, he killed the Daniel models.
I just thought that, in true BSG fashion, that was only a part of the story.  It's clear that john controlled the other models right from hi insept, and I understood it that he actually helped in creating them too.  Now, if Daniel was also designed to be a leader, John's character flaws having been revealed to the original 5 creators, then perhaps he killed Daniel to prevent himself from being usurped.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
zomg

cavil is master cheif

john = john

On a more serious note, doesn't it seem like the lightspeed limit introduces some continuity holes? Wasn't the Ionian Nebula 13,000 lightyears from the algae planet?

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
They met Cylons after their sub-luminal trip, not necessarily in the immediate vicinity of the Colonial space... Who knows how far the Cylon Centurions had spread at that point.

</rationalization>
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
They met Cylons after their sub-luminal trip, not necessarily in the immediate vicinity of the Colonial space... Who knows how far the Cylon Centurions had spread at that point.

</rationalization>

Hrm, almost believable.

 
Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
the revelations of the episode also bring to light other things, such as the inhibitors imbedded in the centurions to keep them docille. clearly an attempt to stop what had happend twice before hand from happening.


 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
because apparently people are totally incapable of treating their toasters decently
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Offline wiley

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I don't think we will hear much about Daniel (number 7). RDM said in his podcast they had to introduce a 13th Cylon somehow, because they numbered boomer an 8 before they came up with the final five. They then realized that 8 and 5 did not equal 12. So Daniel was a continuity tool.

 
Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I don't think we will hear much about Daniel (number 7). RDM said in his podcast they had to introduce a 13th Cylon somehow, because they numbered boomer an 8 before they came up with the final five. They then realized that 8 and 5 did not equal 12. So Daniel was a continuity tool.

Well that's a cop out...if they're going to introduce a new Cylon, the least they can do is integrate him more into the story. Couldn't they have just said that Boomer was Number 8 because 7 is an unlucky number?  :p

 

Offline Snagger

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Like I said, there is a Daniel in the Caprica spin off, and I think he invents the Cylon skin jobs ahead of the Centurions being created.  How does he have the knowledge to do that, with little time taken for development, if he's not a skin job himself?  It's just speculation, but there appears (from a trailer only, admittedly) to be a possibility of further cross-over intrigue there.

 

Offline iamzack

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Why would Cavil kill all the sevens out of jealousy and then only box the threes when they threatened his whole thing about keeping the final five dead to everyone?

That's the only reason I think the Daniels might have some significance... or at least that there's a bit more to that little Cavil killing him thing than they said.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 417 "No Exit" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Like I said, there is a Daniel in the Caprica spin off, and I think he invents the Cylon skin jobs ahead of the Centurions being created.  How does he have the knowledge to do that, with little time taken for development, if he's not a skin job himself?  It's just speculation, but there appears (from a trailer only, admittedly) to be a possibility of further cross-over intrigue there.

It could be, but the timelines don't work out -- we know that Daniel wasn't created until after the Five arrived, which was after the Cylon uprising, which was after Caprica.