[Blue Lion]

You aren't doomed because you are fixing the problems, to a degree, but they'll never go away, everyone seems to expect some kind of Shangri-La one day where someone will turn round and say 'Right, that's the world fixed.', not going to happen.

We ARE fixing the problem because they ARE on the news all the time. If they weren't, we wouldn't care. If the news didn't report bad news, how would we find out about them?  

This reminds me of something someone once said that's kinda crude. "Why bother wiping your ass, you'll just have to go to the bathroom again"? He was kidding of course but the point remains. Just because there will always be problems doesn't mean we shouldn't work on fixing them.

Complacency is the biggest problem, not alarmist attitudes. People aren't mobbing stores for canned goods or loading up on shotgun shells.

These are serious problems that CAN ruin a country. The fact that people are paying more attention to it than Lost or Nancy Grace is not a bad thing.

[Flipside]

I've already said increased awareness is good, but walking around being 'angry' when these people don't even know why, or who at isn't going to solve the problem.

It doesn't take people looting stores to show signs of panic, like the depression itself, it's easy to ignore the warning signs right up to the point you hear glass breaking.

[Blue Lion]

Well, I won't rebut you over the businessman point, but I will say that the Politicians themselves are probably pointless to get angry at, these days, they are mostly talking heads for corporate interests, however, the ultimate blame does lay with, as you say, the people who were willing to turn a blind eye for so long, i.e. The public, while everything was gravy, no-one asked where the gravy was coming from.

So the people elected to help us are helping the people who screw us over and we haven't been watching, and you think we're... overreacting? We're putting too much gloom and doom talk about how the people aren't the primary concern of the country anymore, that corporations are?

It's not even confined to the US alone, the world is suffering, so blaming anything local to the US may well be pointless in the first place. I suppose if there's any anger to go round, it would be at corporations who were struggling, but deliberately hid the fact from involved parties. But the warning signs were there for those who wanted to look.

Yes, no one was paying attention. People won't pay attention to it unless they think it's serious. Severe economic troubles that could alter how this country even exists is serious. Candy coating it so it isn't doom and gloom won't fix anything.

Basically, the bottom line is, help those who need help, but don't get angry about what might happen to you, because it equally might not, if people fear the future, then prepare for it, but going round blaming faceless individuals in Washington or Corporate boardrooms for a problem such as this is only really covering half the bases.

This makes... almost no sense. So I'll try to break it down.

"Help those who need help"

 ok

"but don't get angry about what might happen to you, because it equally might not, if people fear the future, then prepare for it"

 What might happen to me and why am I angry about it? I'm not angry about what might happen to me, I'm angry about what IS happening to me.  Just because I didn't personally lose my home or my job doesn't mean this trouble hasn't affected me. And just because I am able to survive doesn't mean I should be happy about it. The only reason people are preparing for it is because we are angry.

What am I supposed to do? Watch banks fail and my tax money get shelled out to industries, be mad for like a day, wait for those in charge to go "oh ok, you're mad so we'll fix it" and then go back to happy fun time? We should be angry until they are fixed.

Yes, this means we will almost always be angry about something. For someone who just mentioned how delusional it was for us to think of the world as becoming Shangra La, you're missing the point.

[Blue Lion]

I've already said increased awareness is good, but walking around being 'angry' when these people don't even know why, or who at isn't going to solve the problem.

It doesn't take people looting stores to show signs of panic, like the depression itself, it's easy to ignore the warning signs right up to the point you hear glass breaking.

So, tell them who to be angry at, problem solved. Or were you trying to hint they shouldn't be angry at a possible collapse of the system?

[Flipside]

Nearly, personally I'd say that 3/4 of US Citizens walking around being angry without anywhere to direct that anger, and convincing themselves that the system is going to fall is actually highly likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, pessimism about a systemmic problem is almost as deadly as the problem itself.

Take it from me, I'm in the UK, and no-one does pessimism like a Brit

[Blue Lion]

Nearly, personally I'd say that 3/4 of US Citizens walking around being angry without anywhere to direct that anger, and convincing themselves that the system is going to fall is actually highly likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, pessimism about a systemmic problem is almost as deadly as the problem itself.

Take it from me, I'm in the UK, and no-one does pessimism like a Brit

First off, you're assuming people don't know where to direct their anger. They might not know they exact people but they aren't directing it at, I dunno, the crossing guard.

Secondly, people are convinced the system will fail if they don't do anything. No one is convinced that the country is lost no matter what. People are convinced that the country is lost if we sit with our collective thumbs up our butts.

People know things are wrong, big things. To me, pessimism is not being angry. Accepting it because "that's how it is" IS.


Falling housing prices, higher unemployment and massive government bailouts WITHOUT public outcry and anger would do more to demoralize the people. This needs to be talked about every day.

"This is the problem, this is what we're doing to fix it, this is what you can do"

[Flipside]

And if it wasn't house prices and Unemployment, it would be 'Pr0n' or lack of 'Family Values' etc, there's always something to be angry about.

[Polpolion]

And if it wasn't house prices and Unemployment, it would be 'Pr0n' or lack of 'Family Values' etc, there's always something to be angry about.

As evident by this thread. It's clearly not an issue sole to Americans.

[Flipside]

To be honest, if wasn't a world-wide phenomenon, I wouldn't have found the study funny in the first place

[Polpolion]

To be honest, if wasn't a world-wide phenomenon, I wouldn't have found the study funny in the first place

I guess so. It was just Rick James' statement that really got me going on this. I am a bit paranoid like that. 

[Flipside]

To be honest, I've often wondered what 'family values' actually are.

Is that when beating your son with a belt was considered discipline and not child cruelty?

[WeatherOp]

I agree with you in a sense Flip, if the media would bring more better things to light we would pull out of the recession faster, as no doubt a lot of our problems is from the feel as you think attitude which helps dig us deeper into a hole.

On the flipside(no pun intended  ) one can't help but worry or not be happy with what is going on. Sure, you may be doing good right now, but if your company goes bankrupt of lays people off, you are no longer doing good.

[IceFire]

WTF @ those statistics.

Silly America. Maybe it's about time Canada annexed a b!tch.

We really don't want to

Plus they wouldn't like our quasi-British Isles way of doing things.

[Blue Lion]

I agree with you in a sense Flip, if the media would bring more better things to light we would pull out of the recession faster, as no doubt a lot of our problems is from the feel as you think attitude which helps dig us deeper into a hole.

How will upbeat stories increase housing prices? Or create new jobs, or prop up GM?

Will cute stories about kittens refinance people's mortgages? Or lower their credit?

This is not Peter Pan, we can't just think happy thoughts and we'll go flying.

[IceFire]

I agree with you in a sense Flip, if the media would bring more better things to light we would pull out of the recession faster, as no doubt a lot of our problems is from the feel as you think attitude which helps dig us deeper into a hole.

How will upbeat stories increase housing prices? Or create new jobs, or prop up GM?

Will cute stories about kittens refinance people's mortgages? Or lower their credit?

This is not Peter Pan, we can't just think happy thoughts and we'll go flying.

Because allot of problems in the markets are based on investors panic levels and the media makes them panic...so they sell more than they buy and then the market takes a tumble so everyone looses money and corporations feel panicked and start laying off workers and then so on and so forth.

Half of the damn thing is about euphoria in the good times and terror and panic in the bad ones.  They will get over all of this once the media finds something new to harp about.  The War on Terror occupied us for 7 years...now we need something new and the financial crisis is great right now.  Give it a year or two and the media will find something new to chase after.  Its the way of things.

[Blue Lion]

Because allot of problems in the markets are based on investors panic levels and the media makes them panic...so they sell more than they buy and then the market takes a tumble so everyone looses money and corporations feel panicked and start laying off workers and then so on and so forth.

Half of the damn thing is about euphoria in the good times and terror and panic in the bad ones.  They will get over all of this once the media finds something new to harp about.  The War on Terror occupied us for 7 years...now we need something new and the financial crisis is great right now.  Give it a year or two and the media will find something new to chase after.  Its the way of things.

So all these banks went out of business and all these homes plummeted in price because we sold? This has nothing to do with people taking out mortgages on houses they couldn't possibly pay for and financial institutions taking huge loans to play the game that they can't pay back now?

People aren't buying new cars from GM and like not because people didn't want SUVs with high gas prices but because we "sold more than we bought"?

Making happy fun times will not give people jobs, refinance their mortgage or lower their credit card debt. If we ignore it, it's not going to just go away.

This is going to get worse before it gets better and we can't keep candy coating things.

We need ways of creating jobs, we need ways of redoing the credit in this country and avoid a continually falling housing market. We don't need human interest stories.

[WeatherOp]

Because allot of problems in the markets are based on investors panic levels and the media makes them panic...so they sell more than they buy and then the market takes a tumble so everyone looses money and corporations feel panicked and start laying off workers and then so on and so forth.

Half of the damn thing is about euphoria in the good times and terror and panic in the bad ones.  They will get over all of this once the media finds something new to harp about.  The War on Terror occupied us for 7 years...now we need something new and the financial crisis is great right now.  Give it a year or two and the media will find something new to chase after.  Its the way of things.

So all these banks went out of business and all these homes plummeted in price because we sold? This has nothing to do with people taking out mortgages on houses they couldn't possibly pay for and financial institutions taking huge loans to play the game that they can't pay back now?

People aren't buying new cars from GM and like not because people didn't want SUVs with high gas prices but because we "sold more than we bought"?

Making happy fun times will not give people jobs, refinance their mortgage or lower their credit card debt. If we ignore it, it's not going to just go away.

This is going to get worse before it gets better and we can't keep candy coating things.

We need ways of creating jobs, we need ways of redoing the credit in this country and avoid a continually falling housing market. We don't need human interest stories.

Then in both cases we need the consumer to go out and buy. But no, the consumer is so terrified partly due to the media, they won't buy anything. The consumer not buying anything, brings business sales down, which makes stock owners sale because the business may lose money, the business has to make cuts to save money thus inducing layoffs, the media picks up the layoffs which are then broadcasted, in turn doing the exact same thing again.

[Blue Lion]

Then in both cases we need the consumer to go out and buy. But no, the consumer is so terrified partly due to the media, they won't buy anything. The consumer not buying anything, brings business sales down, which makes stock owners sale because the business may lose money, the business has to make cuts to save money thus inducing layoffs, the media picks up the layoffs which are then broadcasted, in turn doing the exact same thing again.

The consumer does not have the money. That's the point, people aren't buying new cars because they're scared, they aren't buying them because they can't (couldn't) afford new SUVs and such with high gas prices.

People can't buy houses because they can't afford the loans. Older loans that gave sweet terms to people just don't exist because they collapsed. People got away with buying huge houses with little income, no down payment. They aren't going to start giving out these loans again just to make everything hunky dory.

Savings are going down, credit card debt is up and people aren't able to use their continually raising home values to get more cash.

[WeatherOp]

Then in both cases we need the consumer to go out and buy. But no, the consumer is so terrified partly due to the media, they won't buy anything. The consumer not buying anything, brings business sales down, which makes stock owners sale because the business may lose money, the business has to make cuts to save money thus inducing layoffs, the media picks up the layoffs which are then broadcasted, in turn doing the exact same thing again.

The consumer does not have the money. That's the point, people aren't buying new cars because they're scared, they aren't buying them because they can't (couldn't) afford new SUVs and such with high gas prices.

People can't buy houses because they can't afford the loans. Older loans that gave sweet terms to people just don't exist because they collapsed. People got away with buying huge houses with little income, no down payment. They aren't going to start giving out these loans again just to make everything hunky dory.

Savings are going down, credit card debt is up and people aren't able to use their continually raising home values to get more cash.

Hmm, saw an article the other day saying money being saved is drastically up.

[dr_costas]

the UK has been hit by recession before, back in the 80's. People did lose their jobs etc but things settled after a while

The problem is that people spent more than they can afford without saving for the future. If you have a society that depends on people spending, you will get into troubles the moment these people cannot spend. I would not be surprised if there are more people working in mobile phone shops than teachers; house prices have shot up immensely and now its only natural that they will come down; so much money spent in terrorizing errrr fighting terror I mean, etc etc.

And the big crash in the 20's came because people got scared and stopped buying.

I say we all go out spent our money so that we help people keep their jobs.If things really get ugly then at least we enjoyed it