[TomShak]

Hiya,


I've been playing with converting some models to the freespace engine and I've noticed a bizarre problem. The models look great in game initially. However, if you fire a counter measure or get hit by an enemy weapon then the whole model turns a bizarre red tint ..

I was wondering if anyone has seen this before, and if so, how you stop it.


Cheers


T

[TopAce]

A screenshot would help.

[Lucika]

A screenshot would help.

It would make us laugh.

[TomShak]

Sure, here's a shot before firing a counter-measure ... and another one after firing the counter measure.



It's not just this model either, I get the same problem with all the models I've created ...

[Bobboau]

does it move around? or is it fixed in that position?

[Rodo]

isn't that the reflection of the countermesure lighting?

[ssmit132]

Looks more like the countermeasure's glow map.

[TomShak]

It doesn't move around it always stays fixed in that position.

It's also definitely not just a reflection of the light from the counter-measure because the effect is permanent. Once it's there there's no way to get rid of it, other than reloading the mission.

[ARSPR]

First of all:

This is not the right board for a support question. You'll get more attention if you post it in Support Board: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,151.0.html.

Maybe some admin could move it.

Now, my guess:
You have a Mac.

Your reflections do really seem a bug in env-mapping and they are known to happen on Macs. (Echelon9 is working on that). More info in this thread, and specially from this post: (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,60044.msg1185707.html#msg1185707) and in this Mantis report: http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1858

As a fast test, without knowing your system, try running the game with -no_glsl. (As a side effect, you'll lost normal mapping and the overall game lighthing will change as it will disable shaders).

If your problem has nothing to do with this please mantis it, uploading all the info you can (I mean your new models and textures, saying which build you use, your system, exact steps to get it, a sample mission, whatever you can think of).

Another question, you say it happens with custom models you've done. Doesn't it happen with Mediavps 3.6.10 data or retail one?
Also env-mapping is controled by alpha channel in the -shine maps. Check that these maps are not corrupted somehow. (Although I suppose that, even with a corrupted map, that effect shouldn't happen, so nevertheless, there would be a bug...)

[TomShak]

Apologies, because I only get it with my custom models I had assumed it was a question of something incorrect in the model and was thus a modelling question rather than an actual bug. If this post would be more appropriate in the support forum then it's fine to move it.

Unfortunately, no this isn't on the mac. Normal Windows PC.


I tried passing -no_glsl but it wasn't recognised as an argument. However, turning off glow maps does fix the problem, even if I leave everything else turned on. The problem also disappears if I turn off the media VPs and switch to "No mod".

It may also be worth noting that all these models are simple textured polygons, no bump or normal maps or anything like that.

[ARSPR]

I tried passing -no_glsl but it wasn't recognised as an argument. However, turning off glow maps does fix the problem, even if I leave everything else turned on. The problem also disappears if I turn off the media VPs and switch to "No mod".

Which ANCIENT build are you using?

Newer, and not so newer builds, recognize that command. Update your build NOW, maybe your build has a broken env map support.

Latest available build for Windows here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,61232.msg1209053.html#msg1209053

[TomShak]

Latest stable, 3.6.9 ... perhaps I just passed the argument to the wrong thing .. I put "-no_glsl" as a "custom flag" in the FS2 launcher.

[ARSPR]

Latest stable, 3.6.9 ... perhaps I just passed the argument to the wrong thing ..

Forget about 3.6.9. It's just too old. Even Mediavps 3.6.10 need newest builds. You should go with nightly builds. They are not "official" because there are still some known bugs, but they are pretty, pretty stable.

Link to the latest in my previous post.

BTW, the argument and location is fine. But with a new build and latest launcher, you should also get it as a tick option (like glow maps or others) under "development" or "troubleshooting" section (I don't have access to FS2 right now so I'm just posting what I remember that will be just approximate).

[TomShak]

Ah, I didn't realize 3.6.9 was considered to be very out of date.

That does seem to have fixed the problem Although it also seems to have disabled lighting for the models. They all come up uniformly lit (i.e. no one part is brighter than any other part) ..



The screenshot shows the colours to be different, in fact the colours appear correctly in game. However, the model is still uniformly lit.

For comparison, I tried with the normal Media VP models, and they are lit normally.

Also the transparency seems to work quite differently, a lot of the textures that were previously highly transparent are now largely opaque.

Have these things changed at all from 3.6.9 to 3.6.10?

[ARSPR]

Wow! I suppose you've been outside from HLP for a long time. 

I'm no expert but in a graphical point of view, there have been HUGE changes from 3.6.9:

• Better and extended support for DDS textures. They are the preferred format.
• D3D is now dead. IIRC in 3.6.9 it was just very ill 
• FS2 open now uses GPU shaders to render the game. You need a SM3.0 capable GPU nevertheless and a set of shaders. (Mediavps 3.6.10 has a full set of them. They are .sdr files which go in effects folder. I don't remember which vp includes them right now).
• Because of this, lighting has been improved a lot. And now we even have parallax and normal map support,  ,  if you enable them in Launcher (-height and -normal flags) and you have adequate textures. (Right now there's no available -height maps so you won't see this effect, but the engine is capable of it).
• As already said, now env-mapping is always controlled by the alpha channel of shine maps.
• Nevertheless, there's still legacy render support for SM2.0 capable GPUs or, if you have troubles, through -no_glsl flag. With this flag newer 3.6.10. builds render using the same process than 3.6.9 (no shaders are used).
• Widescreen resolution HUD misalignments have been fixed. Now you can play in other resolutions than 4:3 ones. The only effect you have now is that some HUD elements are horizontally stretched (example the radar is not round but elliptical)
• Anisotropic filtering support in the game executable (check the Launcher slider). You'll also find an antialiasing slider, but it still does nothing. It's there for future improvement in the game engine
• F3 lab has been also improved. Check it

Also, if you haven't previously done it, please remember to download NEW mediavps 3.6.10 (forget and delete 3.6.8 zeta or any other ancient version you were using) and the latest launcher (5.5d).

[TomShak]

It's not so much that I've been out for a long time, I'm pretty new to the HLP I went with 3.6.9 because that's what the freespace open website listed as the latest stable.

Interestingly I already have the 3.6.10 MediaVPs ... since that's what the FS2 Open installer gives you ...

Is there a guide somewhere on what you need to do to get a model to work with 3.6.10? You obviously need more than just a textured POF these days

[Hellstryker]

It's not so much that I've been out for a long time, I'm pretty new to the HLP I went with 3.6.9 because that's what the freespace open website listed as the latest stable.

Interestingly I already have the 3.6.10 MediaVPs ... since that's what the FS2 Open installer gives you ...

Is there a guide somewhere on what you need to do to get a model to work with 3.6.10? You obviously need more than just a textured POF these days

Edit: Wow, I broke that quote good.


No, not really. dockpoints and stuff like that aside.

[TomShak]

Okay, so for now the best option seems to be to stick with 3.6.9 and disable glow maps ...  I'll look at moving to 3.6.10 when more information is available

[ARSPR]

Okay, so for now the best option seems to be to stick with 3.6.9 and disable glow maps ...  I'll look at moving to 3.6.10 when more information is available

NO, you're wrong. Forget about 3.6.9 builds they are just too old. (It's a known issue. SCP crew do really want to have an "official" 3.6.10 ASAP. They are even in a code freeze, so no more features are added, just bugfixing)

3.6.9. and 3.6.10 builds need exactly the same data inside the POF file. 3.6.10. only adds support for NEW textures for the NEW graphic effects: xxxx-normal.dds & xxxx-heigth.dds over the older and well known xxxx.dds, xxxx-glow.dds & xxxx-shine.dds. And these new textures are FULLY optional.

And now, "what does a model need to work?" is rather a moddeling question than a FS support one?   

[TomShak]

Okay. So ... my POFs worked correctly with 3.6.9 except a small glow maps problem. However in 3.6.10 they have no lighting, and the transparency is broken .. So the question is what do I need to do to make them work correctly with 3.6.10? I don't intend to add normal maps or height maps or any such thing to these models (for reasons I won't detail) ... so all I need is for them to be lit correctly and have the right transparency